Now Stand.... Christians...For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...

Praise God for a Wonderful AGM

2010-10-05T05:55:00.000-07:00

Since Senior Pastor warned us that posting anything about the AGM in the internet is not ethical - We will not mentioned anything about the AGM.

However, I want to give God all the glory for a wonderful AGM.

And FINALLY THE SILENT MAJORITY HAS SPOKEN AND HAVE HAD ENOUGH WITH TTG - this was very obvious.

The church wants to move on, this is the desire of the Lord and fulfill the calling that the Lord has placed on us.

We rebuke and bring Liza to the Lord in prayer, for the "Liar" accusation.

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you may not be judged;

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE CHURCH

2010-10-05T05:54:00.001-07:00

By Grant Phillips

I noticed this morning in one of the local papers the following activities scheduled this week-end for some of the local churches:
One local church is offering an Internet safety program presentation. The Internet can be very helpful with education, purchasing, news and other ways, but it is also like walking through a mine field. One needs to be careful. Therefore, this is probably a good thing to do, even within the church scenario. There are many ways our children can be harmed via the Internet, and parents need to know what to do to protect their children and themselves.
Another local church will sponsor “Photography as a Prayer Workshop”, where they will “define prayer, basic photographic principles, and think together about the spiritual practices of photography”. Now I’m getting somewhat apprehensive. Understood, I don’t know where they are going with this, but I’m having to stretch my mind to comprehend any relationship between prayer and basic photographic principles. I also cannot seem to connect with the “spiritual practices of photography”, although I’m trying to keep an open mind.
Two churches are having a bean supper. All I will say here is that church folk sure do like to eat.
Two others are having a gospel singing. I have always noticed that many, many more people will turn out for a singing event (and/or to eat, see previous paragraph), than a Bible study.
One is offering free English classes to the international residents in the area. Now they are definitely losing me. What does this have to do with the function of the church?
Another is having “food, fun and games”. And again we eat, and have fun and play games. This is beginning to sound like the Corinthian church.
Another is having a fish fry and auction. Alas, we eat again, but this time an auction is included.
I thought this was interesting. This church is celebrating its 175th anniversary. They mention every pastor who has ever served since their beginning. They talk about their new steeple being added. They refer to their structural damage from a storm and the repair work. They inform us that they replaced the carpet with hardwood flooring and are now going to replace the hardwood flooring with carpet. They tell us about their new siding, new concrete surfaces to the entrance, parking lot, lighting, landscaping and retirement of debt. My Bible tells me that the Lord Jesus Christ is the head of the church, but there was no mention of Him. There was no mention of the souls He has saved. There was no mention of how others can come to know Him as their Savior. It was all about the building.
This next one is the crème de la crème of idiocy. They are celebrating the 50th anniversary of The Andy Griffith show on Sunday from 3 to 6 p.m. They will have memorabilia on display, trivia games on Mayberry knowledge and favorite episodes to watch. But that’s not all. They have also begun sign-up for the community basketball league for boys and girls ages five and six. The cost being $20 with scholarships available. This tops it all. Obviously, this group is big on entertainment. The Andy Griffith show?! What on earth does The Andy Griffith show have to do with what Jesus expects of His Church?! And instead of teaching children how to play basketball, as most all of the churches are now doing, what are they being taught about Jesus?
One other church was advertising that they are having a preaching service, and invited everyone to attend. One!
God help us folks! Is this what Jesus wants from His church? I have noticed church ads like these for a long time, but this time it really got to me. If this isn’t the epitome of classic Laodicean type churches, I don’t know what is.
I am not saying that the activities mentioned in these ads are intrinsically wrong. I am saying they are wrong for the Church. Again, none of the activities mentioned are bad. They are good, but any Christian who has studied the Word of God (the Bible) knows that this is not the direction that Jesus wants us to go. These things, other than the one lone church that invited everyone to come to the preaching service, can be done by the world outside the Church. Greater things are expected of Christ’s Church. It may be our opinion that these things are what the Church should do, but our opinion does not count. The only “opinion” that counts is God’s. So what does God expect from us? Let’s talk about that.
The Lord says to train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it. Christian parents are to train up their children in the Word of God. The Church group should do the same, realizing that many of the childrens’ parents are not saved. Let the schools teach them how to dribble. Let us teach them how to face life with the Sword of God. Why am I such a stickler on teaching the Bible? The following passages will explain; “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12); Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalm 119:11; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” (Psalm 119:105)
The Church is to come together to praise our Savior, to be taught from His Word, to assist each other in growing in Christ. We are to be fueled, so to speak from His Word, and then share the Good News about Jesus to a lost world, not just in the building where we meet, but in the world where we live. Jesus did not wait for people to come to Him, although many did because they wanted something, but He went out looking for the lost sheep. He trained His disciples and sent them out into the world as lambs among wolves (Luke 10:3) to tell others about Him. That is what He wants from His Church. Learn of Him. Share Him with others. I don’t think He had a meal after meal, basketball, The Andy Griffith show, buildings, a list of preachers, photography, the Internet, and all the other “stuff” in mind. I can hear it now, “but we fellowship in the Lord”. Answer me, and be honest. Is anything at all said at these events concerning Jesus? For example, I too have been to church suppers, and have yet to hear one word said about Jesus and/or anything in relationship to Him during the dinner conversations. Much of it is gossip.
Jesus told the first of the seven churches in the book of Revelation, Ephesus, that it had left its first love, referring of course to Himself. He further stated to the Ephesians, “Remember, therefore, from where thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick (lamp stand) out of its place, except thou repent.” (Revelation 2:5) Have we the Church left our first love? I think we have. We are not in love with our Savior anymore, and we show it by our actions, specifically our disobedience to His Word. We prefer to entertain and gorge ourselves. We try hard to appease the world by mimicking its ways, instead of “putting on Jesus”. We need desperately to return to our first love.
He told the last of the seven churches in the same book of the Bible that it was so full of itself and lukewarm that He would spew (vomit) it out of His mouth. Jesus told the Laodicean church it was neither cold nor hot. He reminds this church that it thinks it is rich, increased with goods, has need of nothing and does not know how wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked it is. (beginning at Revelation 3:14) A Christian would have to be living on another planet to not see that we are definitely living in the Laodicean church age. Many church groups have some or maybe all of the attributes of the seven churches, but definitely the predominate attribute of the church age today is wholly Laodicean.
It is not to say that all church groups today have left their first love or are lukewarm concerning the Lord, but those who still love Him and obey Him and reject the things of the world seem to be few and far between. Basically, they are very hard to find. Most, yes I said most, church groups today exude as about as much “true” Christianity as a pagan social club. It is clearly seen from just one local newspaper on one day showing church ads for one week-end that most of the church in general today is so humanistic and so far from true Christianity, it is no wonder that Jesus would choose to vomit it out of His mouth.
Let me add another thought. Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd. If any local church actually follows the Good Shepherd in its call and direction, then the Lord Jesus Christ will be glorified.
The pastors who have been truly called by Jesus to shepherd His flock and who are obedient to His Word in doing so, will have churches in tune with our Lord’s commands. Remember, we are the body. He is the head.
Sadly though, some men have been called to shepherd and are not obeying our Master in their duties. They are like jellyfish with no back bone. They forget that those in such a position will be judged more harshly by our Lord for not fulfilling their duties per His commands. They will be judged for allowing the world to creep in among the flock and attack it. They will be judged for not standing up for what is right in the eyes of God. When I say they will be judged, I am referring of course to their works, not their salvation. (I am assuming in this example that they are saved by the grace of God and called to shepherd His flock.)
We’ve seen two types of shepherds, or pastors. There is another class consisting of those who are Christians, but have not been called to pastor. I personally believe that there are many who fit this description. Whatever the reason may be that they are pasturing a local church, it is not because they were called by God to do so. Some do so for the money, some for fame, some because they like to grandstand, some because they just like to hear themselves talk. There could be many reasons, but it is not the right reason. They are where they should not be.
Fourthly there is one final group I believe are erroneously in the pastoral field, those who do not know the Good Shepherd as their Savior, but yet have managed to wiggle themselves into the position of shepherding His flock. They are charlatans. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They know the right words to say to deceive the ignorant, and unfortunately much of the church is ignorant.
I must insert at this point that this is another tremendous reason for every Christian to be Biblically knowledgeable. Again, most Christians are not. The Lord tells us in His Word to, “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15) In this country at least, anyone can get a Bible, even free, in different translations no less, for better understanding. There are many self-help books, such as Bible dictionaries, that can assist the Christian in their growth in the Lord. But most Christians, at least those who profess to be Christians, are too sorry and lazy to study God’s Word. They can tell you all about the drug-induced sports figures and bed-hopping Hollywood crowd, but don’t know diddly squat about God’s Word. I often wonder how many will be taken from the local churches when Jesus comes for His own at the Rapture. I shudder to think that probably most of the pulpits will still be occupied and the number in the pews see little change.
When I saw those church ads in the local paper that I mentioned at the beginning of this article, these are the thoughts that came to my mind. I have only hit the high spots. Many, if not most, of the churches have strayed from the path our Lord wants us on. Even though every Christian is commanded by Jesus to know Him, and we cannot know Him apart from listening to Him, and we cannot listen apart from His Word, Christians in general are not feeding upon the saving and life-directing Word of a Holy God. Also, they are not being properly fed from the Word by many of those in the pastoral field. Therefore much of the fault comes from the pulpit. The blind are leading the blind. The blind flock does not even know they are being fed to the wolves by the blind under-shepherds.
Is it then any wonder that so many choose to gorge themselves on earthly food, and starve spiritually from not eating the heavenly food? Is it any wonder so many choose to play games, instead of working while there is day (John 9:4) for the Lord? Is it any wonder that some put more importance in a building than the One it represents? Is it any wonder that some will honor a secular television show from Hollywood over the One Who saved our hell-bound souls?
Jesus also said to the Laodicean church, “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock; if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Folks, I repeat, we are now living in the final stage of Church history, the Laodicean church age. The next event on God’s calendar is the removal of His Church from this earth to Heaven. It is called the Rapture. It does not matter whether or not you believe it. It will happen. He said so. Are you ready to meet Him, or are you going to be playing games, eating beans and fish, worshiping your church building and watching old Andy Griffith reruns while the true Church ascends with Jesus to the home He has prepared for those who are His? Today is the day of salvation. (2 Corinthians 6:2) There may not be a tomorrow.
The world teaches compromise. It is not politically correct to be dogmatic, at least if it concerns what God says. Romans 3:4 says, “God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar…”. It is past time for Christians to stand up and speak out. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, but the only measuring device is the Word of God, the Bible. Learn it. Know it. Live it. It is the very Word of the One who now saves (Acts 16:31) and will soon judge (Revelation).
If Jesus stood alone against the forces of evil, and He will, He would still be a majority. In the end, He will annihilate His enemies with just the Word of His mouth while His Church (the Bride) looks on. Let us pray for each other, praying that through the power of God’s Spirit within us, we will not follow the ways of the world, but will stay true to the one who bought us with a price that no man can pay. We should have the attitude that “this world has nothing I want”, so I will stand up for Him until He takes me home.
The church ads I mentioned are only a very, very small example of how the world (Satan’s crowd) has taken over many, many of the church groups. However, Christ’s true Church is alive and well. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus said, “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (petros, a small stone), and upon this rock (petra, a large rock) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Jesus is the rock of our salvation, to those who come to Him. He is the cornerstone (Mark 12:10) of His Church, but a stumbling stone (1 Peter 2:8) to those who reject Him.
If we truly are His, we will hunger and thirst for his righteousness (Matthew 5:6). The yearning in our hearts to hear what He has to say will constantly draw us to His spoken Word, the Bible. Satan is the master of deception. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8) Beware of the worldly claptrap that is so prevalent in many local churches. Some of these churches are so full of this nonsensical garbage, it has filled the buildings within to the rafters, and is flowing out the front doors. Don’t be part of it. I would rather my wife and I sit on the back porch and worship Jesus alone (Matthew 18:20), than to have this unholy stench upon me. It would be worse than being sprayed by a skunk. Am I insinuating that I am better than everyone else? God forbid! No! I am always aware of the wretchedness of my being, but thank God I am cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God! I know I deserve the hottest seat in hell, but I thank God that He has given me what I do not deserve. It is called “grace”.
So, if you were placing a church ad in your local newspaper, what would it say?

Grant Phillips
grantphillips@windstream.net

Lessons from Nehemiah

2010-06-25T07:13:00.000-07:00

The following articles is from this link --> http://drtscott.typepad.com/pastor_scotts_thoughts/2009/09/lessons-from-nehemiah.html

I am currently preaching a sermon series on Nehemiah and am thoroughly enjoying what I am learning from this great re-builder of Jerusalem's walls and identity. There are many important themes regarding leadership and mission that emerge from the life of Nehemiah, but one of the major themes of the book is the way that Nehemiah dealt with opposition and criticism.

This month it has been seven years since I transitioned from being a full-time college professor to taking on the role of senior pastor. The last seven years have been wonderful and blessed in so many ways, but they have also been filled with very difficult moments. I have especially had to learn how to deal with criticism. It isn't that professors don't get criticism (every semester students get to fill out course evaluations), but for a number of reasons parishioners often feel very free to share their perspective on your ministry and leadership. Here are some of the things people have shared with me over the last seven years:

My sermons are too long.
My sermons are too short.
I spend too much time preaching the "love" found in the New Testament and not enough on the judgment and righteousness of God in the Old Testament.
I spend too much time preaching out of the Old Testament. "Who cares, pastor, what Solomon did. I need to know what Jesus did."
My sermons are too heady and scholarly.
My preaching is trite and unbiblical. Quote: "It is forty minutes of stand-up comedy and stories about your children all for the purpose of getting people to like you."
I'm soft on sin.
I'm too hard on the saints.
I'm too critical of people who are critical.
I'm too demonstrative and raise my voice too often.
I'm too reserved and quiet and when I drop my voice no one can hear me.
I preach like someone who never had to sacrifice anything for their country.
I'm part of the "taker" generation not the "giver" generation.
I'm a liberal who doesn't take the bible literally.
I take the Bible too seriously. (i.e. Jesus didn't really want us to give everything away...)
I'm too political.
I'm not political enough. (On this point, one prominent leader called me "the low point in the 100 year history of PazNaz").
I'm disrespectful in the pulpit.
I don't speak to the common person enough and am overdressed to identify with everyday folk.
I don't use the altar enough and act uninterested in people meeting Jesus.
I'm too emerging.
I'm not emerging enough.
I'm not a holiness preacher.
I focus too much on holiness.
My shirts don't fit right and my shoes need polished.
I move the church too fast and change too many things.
I move the church too slow and don't change things fast enough.
I don't hire enough diversity.
I hire too many women.
I'm not involved enough in the lives of the pastoral staff.
I spend too much time with, and only care about the pastoral staff (and rich board members).
I'm not a good mentor to younger staff.
I only care about preaching and not about pastoral care.
I should know the names and life situations of every person in the congregation.
I do too much and don't have any personal boundaries.
I'm here too many Sundays and need to give more people a chance to speak.
I'm gone too many Sundays and it is terrible when I invite other people to speak.
"Never give the whole service away to another musician."
"I wish we had more variety. Like the week we had the musician."
I care too much about the church being Nazarene.
I don't focus enough attention on making people good Nazarenes.
I care too much about what the old people think.
I don't care enough about what the old people think... They pay the bills after all.
My children are very well behaved and we are great parents.
My children are wild and I need to be a stronger disciplinarian.
When our kids went to public school people told us they should be home schooled.
When our kids have been in private school people told us they should be in public school.
I am getting too skinny and need to eat more.
I'm looking heavier and need to start watching what I eat. (The actual quote was: "You are much fatter than you used to be..."

That's probably enough for today. It is funny that in the last seven years I have received hundreds of positive emails and letters. They are so encouraging at the time, but I unfortunately forget them quickly. However, I can rehearse the list above with very little effort and I remember each moment well. The reality is that all of us have to learn to deal with criticism. So here is what I'm learning from Nehemiah.

1. Consider the source. Nehemiah's enemies were people whose power and lives were going to be profoundly effected if the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt. Leaders always have to be able to consider where criticism is coming from. Sometimes, whether we know it or not, just our presence or our message is causing changes for a person internally or externally that they are reacting against. Sometimes people are simply broken or facing difficulties and we are just the convenient place for diffused anger and frustration to be placed.

2. Listen for truth. Many of the things I listed above have some truth in them (as much as I hate to admit it). Good leaders have to learn to move past the initial hurt to weigh any truthfulness that criticism (no matter how awkwardly or angrily presented) contains.

3. Don't react in kind. Especially in chapter 6, Nehemiah's enemies try to lure him into a fight. Nehemiah never lets Sanballat or any of his foes lure him into a scuffle. Leaders have to learn to rise above the criticism and not "lose it." Christian leaders in particular have to stay committed to overcoming evil with good.

4. Build a team. Leaders have to have a team around them that lovingly tell them the truth about themselves (thus keeping them grounded and humble) but who also don't allow the critics to have the final word.

5. Keep the mission central. Nehemiah's focus was not his personal popularity but on the mission God had given him. These last seven years have taught me that not every one will share in or be energized by the mission that ignites my passion. That doesn't always make them bad people, it just makes them different people with different concerns and a different vision than I have.

Nehemiah's teaching me that accepting visible leadership comes with both blessings and costs. Nevertheless, I am thankful today for the opportunity to serve with others and work at rebuilding the walls.

Credibility – A letter from a Reader and Online Observer.

2010-06-14T05:47:00.000-07:00

Definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credibility

In a general point of view, the TTG are lacking credibility due to the following reasons:-

CT- this website/blog is evidently managed by a group of former CA’s. These are a group of youngster with the task of communication integrators where they act as the middle person between the TTG core leaders and the general public. These people monitor the blog and allow only for certain comments to be published in the site without any regards to the word of God or any God given principles. Just try this out, go to their comments sections and comments something bad about the church leadership, they will happily publish your comments. However when you comment something good or even a testimony that you have been blessed by so and so‘s preaching – all the best to you in seeing your comments published. The irony is the TRUTH, TRANSPERANCY and GOVERNANCE Champions depend on CT’s administrator to get the message across to their supporter and other interested parties. It’s like how Jesus described in Luke 5:36-39. TTG your approach in having CT especially its administrators is strategically wrong. We all know how lopsided they are. I use to think that CT is managed by some anti-Christian or anti-church groups, however to my dismay I found out only recently that its young people who are behind the blog.
The church leadership (+ deacons) have taken many measures in addressing the issues/concerns raise by the TTG (well in the initial stages – I was impressed by them also) and surely the TTG will get a big pat on the back for their effort. However the TTG has failed miserably to accept the changes, reconcile and move on for the betterment of the church. They have not acknowledged the progress and the effort by the church leaders. They are adamant in their ways in escalating the issue and concerns without any regards to the consequences whatsoever. The TTG is like a human body but without the ability to absorbs or hear. Only one part of their body is dominion over all else that is their TONGUE. Their words are louder than their action.
The TTG + CT eagerly cling to anyone and anything that is against the church and its leadership, a good example is one of its leaders called Mr. Bamboo. This person is an outsider (i.e. not a calvarite) that seems to have a huge voice in the inner circle of the TTG leaders. Due to the lack of support within congregation.
The TTG has been stubborn in its ways without accepting or acknowledging every effort by the leaders. Not a single pinch of humility shown. This is very obvious in all the AGM and EGMs. The motto – I know it all, I know what is best for you. Even though so many church members have conveyed our message to them, via email, letter, sms, mms, comments, face to face, they think we are pro- so and so, hence our voice is biased. They just never listen and never understand our desire – the church at large.
The TTG have this prayer meeting in Taman Seputeh, it’s more like a cult meeting, they have this prophecy session where one of the sister will prophecy that whatever done by the TTG is endorsed by God and God is on their side and at the end they cry out in tears of joy to God for strengthening them. Ok all fine and good, however each and every prophetic word need to act as a confirmation in your heart and seconded by the literal word of God.
The TTG are never seen in any of the church meetings, they can only be seen on the day the AGM or EGM are held, you can never see them in prayer meeting, holding another bother or sister’s hand and praying for our church. You can never see them in any of the church activities. They are a separate group on their own. They have forsaken the church.
Finally the worst of their calls: TOTT – stands for turn of the tap – i.e. stop giving to the church. They list a list of lies in supporting this call. I will just say this and I rest my case. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL.

For those of you in Church Camp – what a wonderful time we had.

CalvaryToday and... tomorrow

2010-05-26T05:57:00.000-07:00

To be honest, it's hard for me to say that I love the TTG or the people behind CalvaryToday - (Btw, please allow another to be honest here.... to be honest....I'm beginning to move to that direction for the church leaders aswell, as all their action seems to only address the human level... what about the spiritual level?)

I just found out the following articles
http://syedsoutsidethebox.blogspot.com/2009/05/goings-on-at-calvary-church-malaysia.html

The whole article is based on CalvaryToday's comments.. it's comments - thanks to their administrator for only allowing comments that are critical to the church leadership - all other comments are NOT published...... believe me - I have tried commenting - it seems that comments goes into a black hole and never to be seen anymore. Maybe the TTG gravity ...dissects my comments and what's left is not even a logical sentence. Ok I know .. i being too metaphoric....

Ok here it goes.....

Not sure how many of you have read the AGM - what you call that...apa nama, you know the book that we collect before we attend the AGM.....oh ... the annual report - One of deacon in charge for communications said that they are looking into the idea of creating a blog for calvary church? Well Bro.Deacon any progress on that? That yet to be created blog, will be only open to Calvarites and no one else and I guess some copyright law will also apply since it's a "within 4 walls blog".

I was thinking, maybe we should test the water first, I have created (with some help from a couple of calvarites) a blog called:-

http://calvaryconnectkl.blogspot.com/

Email address: calvaryconnectkl@gmail.com

We (since I’m speaking for a couple of other people as well), intend for this blog to be a calvarites only blog with access for those who register with an authenticated email ID, then they will be requested to answer some question to determine whether they are really calvarites or not. We are still working on mechanism for this. This is what we need from you:-

1. Give a thumbs up or down for this idea.
2. Provide some suggestion for the authentication mechanism – how do we cross check?

Pleas email directly to calvaryconnectkl@gmail.com

The need is there for such a blog, at least to stop the shameful act of some blog – sad to say mine included.

When this blog is up and running, I will handover administration to a selected group of people or better still, if I receive an email from the communications deacon – I will be even more glad to handover the access to him.

AG Position Paper: Church Conflict

2010-05-25T05:18:00.000-07:00

Is there an orderly and biblical way for members of a local church to resolve conflict? If it pertains to doctrine, is there a procedure available to implement corrections? When individuals become disgruntled with their church should they leave? Does the Assemblies of God believe there is ever a time or circumstance where believers should look for a new church? If an individual were to leave a church, is there a biblical and ethical way to leave?

Church problems existed even in the first-century Church, so it is not surprising that today’s Church, which is still not perfect, would have its problems. People become dissatisfied with the way church leadership spends money, with a youth program which doesn’t meet the needs of their children, with the style of worship or preaching, with teaching that seems unscriptural, and so on. Sometimes a problem exists between members who disagree on everything that happens in the church. Paul had to reprimand two ladies in the church at Philippi. "I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord" (Phil. 4:2). These were not just marginal troublemakers who had cantankerous spirits. They had both worked at Paul’s side in the cause of the gospel.

Trouble and disagreement seem inevitable in any human situation, even in a church populated by humans in the process of becoming Christlike. Satan, who seeks to discredit God’s work wherever he can, delights in raising occasions for friction and disagreement right in the church body. This is reality even though the Bible urges all believers to work together in unity (Eph. 4:3,13), to be kind to one another (Eph. 4:32), and to show equal respect to all who come into the congregation (James 2:1-9).

When church problems arise and seemingly come to the point of having no solution, what should a Christian do? The first step is severe self-evaluation. If the dissatisfied person is in any way responsible for the problem, and leaves the church, the problem will go along, only to break out in another form in the new situation. A time at the altar, sincerely seeking the Lord’s direction on what can be changed in one’s own life is essential, even if the problem seems to have been initiated by another party.

After one has passed the "inner-spirit check," with no solution becoming evident–remembering all the time that God desires unity among His children–one must then look toward ways in which the Holy Spirit can use him or her to deal with and resolve the problem. With a gentle spirit, nurtured through extended prayer, and possibly fasting, one might then speak with the one or ones who are part of the problem. This step fulfills the instruction of Scripture: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ’every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church" (Matt. 18:15-17). Hopefully, by this time, with each party seeking the unity of the Spirit, there will be some resolution.

But human nature being what it is, and with Satan busily at work trying to keep unity from becoming a reality, one may actually have to separate from the congregation and seek to identify with a group devoted to God and His Word. Unfortunately, some Christians have left unpleasant situations which should have been dealt with according to Matthew 18, only to see later that the remaining members of the congregation followed after false leadership that led the congregation into spiritual ruin. There may even be times when mature denominational leadership should be called in to deal with unhealthy situations. An objective outside voice, sensitive to the leading of the Spirit, can often cut through pettiness that causes major church problems.

But what if, after carefully following all the above steps, the option of withdrawal seems to be the only alternative? Before leaving a church, one should always talk privately with the pastor, or communicate by a carefully worded letter. A kind contact with others who are a part of the problem or a part of the solution might also be appropriate. The purpose of these contacts is not to speak the last word in a disagreement, but to make sure that good will and understanding are key elements in the separation. All information and reasons should be accurate, and one’s attitude must be right at the time of leaving. The departure should be without bitterness or resentment. To carry ill will in the separation means a continuing battle in one’s own spirit will also go along. One should meticulously avoid trying to influence others to leave the church. Nor should one speak ill of the former church when becoming part of the next church.

CONCERNS:
Just to speak about the possibility of needing to leave a church is dangerous. There are too many who change churches, or drop out entirely, because of minor disagreements or dissatisfaction. Such people are sometimes derogatorily referred to as church tramps. The unity of the Body, however, should always be the primary concern of all persons involved if and when a move seems to be necessary.

The above statement is based upon our common understanding of scriptural teaching.

AG Position Paper: Christian Involvement in Law Suits

2010-05-25T05:16:00.000-07:00

This document reflects commonly held beliefs based on scripture which have been endorsed by the church's Commission on Doctrinal Purity and the Executive Presbytery.

Should Christians be involved in lawsuits? Are there biblical principles that apply to Christians in these matters? Is it permissible for Christians to sue others who harm them?

Paul’s main concern in advising believers not to bring lawsuits against other believers (1 Cor. 6:1-8) is the discredit such action brings on the reputation of the church and the cause of Christ. With this understanding in mind, it is appropriate to ask when legal action is appropriate and when it is not. Since the Bible is our authoritative rule for conduct we must study Scripture to see if it permits or prohibits such action.

The Old Testament clearly indicates there should be compensation or satisfaction for injuries or losses. The Mosaic Law of retaliation (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life—Ex. 21:23,24), while seeming cruel or barbaric by today’s western-world standards of justice, actually worked to limit vengeance and eliminate inter-family feuds. No one could exact as penalty more than one life for a life or more than one eye for an eye. In less serious cases, money could be paid by the guilty party to compensate the loss suffered by the injured party (cf. Ex. 22:12 to 23:9). Prior to the monarchy under Saul and his successors, judgment was often administered by the elders of a town (Ruth 4:1-12). Under the monarchy, punishment for civil and criminal wrongs was left to the king and his administration (1 Kings 3:16-28).

Jesus held His disciples to a higher standard of behavior than required under Old Testament law. Instead of retaliation toward a wronging party, He directed the injured or offended person to turn the other cheek, to give up one’s cloak, and to go the second mile. Enemies were to be loved, prayed for, and forgiven (Matt. 5:38-48, 6:14,15). Such behavior overcame evil with good and had the intended effect of shaming the wrongdoer into reforming his ways (Rom. 12:17-21). This "new righteousness" forced the injured party to be more concerned with his own inner attitude and the eternal destiny of his "enemy" than with a wrong to be corrected, an injury punished, or a loss compensated. This does not mean that an offended person was left without any practical recourse for righting a wrong, but the first act was to be an attempt to achieve personal reconciliation. If reconciliation was not successful, a third-party believer might be asked to arbitrate. If that failed, the matter was to be presented before the entire church. When an offender refused to obey the judgment of the church, he was to be treated as a pagan (Matt. 18:15-20).

In 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 the apostle Paul addressed the problem of a believer who brought a lawsuit against another believer in the secular courts. Since most of the believers in Corinth were poor (1 Cor. 1:26-31), and the lawsuit dealt with one financially cheating another, it is likely that the suit involved two of the more prominently wealthy persons in the Corinthian church. It appears that the plaintiff had filed the suit rather than following the admonition of Jesus (Matt. 5:38-48) or involving the church according to Matthew 18:15-20). Unfortunately, the Corinthian church had done nothing while the Christian community was scandalized by the airing before a secular court of a struggle between two believers. Here was a church recognized for its "wisdom" (2 Cor. 11:19), but which had not had "anyone wise enough to judge a dispute" (1 Cor. 6:5). Paul chastised the plaintiff by telling him it would have been better to have suffered wrong rather than to disgrace the church (1 Cor. 6:1-7); he chastised the defendant for having cheated and done wrong (1 Cor. 6:8); and he chastised the church for not taking care of the matter (1 Cor. 6:2-6).

Paul never addresses the question of whether a lawsuit would be appropriate if the church had declared the offending party to be "a pagan and a tax collector" (Matt. 18:17). Perhaps such a lawsuit would be permitted under the teaching of Romans 13:1-5 that the secular government exists to uphold justice, prevent lawlessness, and punish the wrongdoer.
So when a believer is wronged by another believer, the offended believer must seriously consider whether or not he or she should simply drop the matter, leaving the judgment to God alone. If the believer, following prayer and careful consideration, determines the matter should be pursued, then a face-to-face meeting with the offending party should be the first step. Failing that, one should seek out a believer mediator. If that does not provide resolution, the dispute should be brought to the church (the pastor, the recognized board of elders or deacons, and if need be the membership).

Sometimes the legal conflict does not pit believer against believer, but believer versus unbeliever. What is the Christian response then? Paul himself exercised the right of defending himself under Roman law (Acts 16:37-40; 18:12-17; 22:15-29: 25:10-22). Clearly, Paul did not interpret "turning the other cheek" to include forfeiture of all legal rights pertaining to citizenship. No doubt he exercised those rights consistent with his Spirit-given understanding that the function of government is to uphold justice and punish wrongdoers (Romans 13). Punishing wrongdoers also means protecting the innocent. Thus the question for a believer is never "How do I get personal vengeance?" Instead, the proper question is "Which action on my part (filing or not filing a lawsuit) will best promote justice in society, punish the one who does wrong, protect the innocent, and bring the least possible negative reflection on the cause of Christ?

If all avenues of settling a matter between believers have been exhausted, and the offending party refuses to correct the wrong, then the injured believer must balance Matthew 5:38-48 and 6:14,15 with Romans 13:1-5. The following questions, to check personal motivation, should be asked.

Is my desire for a redress of injury motivated simply by personal gain, or am I involving the secular power of the court in order to uphold justice and prevent lawlessness?

If I bring action before a secular court, will that, in the context of American rather than Corinthian society, bring harm to the Church and the cause of Christ?

Am I totally honest with my claim (or defense), or am I seeking through self-deception to gain (or avoid) a compensation that is more (or less) than the injury suffered?

Since the Holy Spirit will never counsel a believer contrary to the Word He has inspired, after a thorough season of prayer, what course of action "seems good to the Holy Spirit"?

As an additional safeguard, what is the counsel of other believers who are in a position of leadership or eldership in the body of Christ?

CONCERNS:
In American society, another matter needs to be considered: liability and other forms of insurance. Public policy has established insurance as a means of compensating an individual for a wide variety of injuries suffered. In many cases, while a litigant may be the legal defendant in a suit, the actual payer for the injuries may be an insurance company. Suppose, for example, that a Christian is severely injured by the bad driving of another believer. A suit between the two really does not stem from personal malice, but is an effort on the part of the injured person to reclaim financial losses stemming from the accident, which will be compensated by the insured’s automobile liability policy. In such a case, the believers have not brought the church into censure before a worldly court (as was the situation in Corinth), but have simply availed themselves of a legal system which seeks, as a matter of public policy, to help victims to be made "whole" from their injuries.

In many American communities, attorneys who are believers have formed Christian conciliation or mediation groups that a wronged person may also seek out. The legal advantage to seeking mediation from such an organized group is that, upon proper stipulation by the parties, the judgment of the Christian conciliation group may be recognized by the secular course as a substitute for the court’s involvement.

The above statement is based upon our common understanding of scriptural teaching.
All Scripture quotations are from the New International Version (NIV) unless otherwise specified.

A Call for Prayer Revival Meeting

2010-05-04T04:57:00.000-07:00

Many times we have heard our leaders say that building CCC is not just constructing a building but we are building people.

When are we going to understand that building CCC has made us a huge target for the enemy, the attacks from the enemy has resulted in confusions, disunity and all the troubles we are now facing?

Now how do we move on?

I believe there’s only one way -> Have a weekly Prayer Revival Meeting – every Friday(or Saturday) – change the whole format of a standard prayer meeting – no more praying in group of 2 or 3, no more praying for the items shown on the screen, no more praying for the world or some church located thousands of mile from KL.

The whole format should be -> The congregation on their knees, begging God for deliverance and fulfillment of God’s desire for Calvary Church – this should take precedence that any other prayer meeting format now. Do this now – today is the Day that the Lord has made – not tomorrow or once in 3 month prayer emphasis or whatever.

Make it compulsory for the people to fast for 1 meal while praying – we should bang the doors of heaven until God answers us. There should not be any time or schedule for the prayer meeting, if led by Holy Spirit – we should continue praying as long as the Lord wants, until 12am or even longer. The church leaders should be fully committed to this by example – they should be the last person to leave. The prayer of the righteous avails much.

Let’s tears flow freely, let groaning, let screaming and let shouting and let singing and let pseaking in tongues and let worship and let jumping and let rolling and let dancing and let whatever else – as led by the Holy Spirit – freely flow…

Honestly – this Prayer Revival Meeting should be held on Saturdays not Friday, so why I suggested Friday you might ask…. Well I am as demoralized as many of you and in need of encouragement – Friday fits better on my schedule – and if the Prayer Revival Meetings are held on Saturdays then I need to make a lot of changes to my schedule and my preference of spending time with friends and family on Saturdays. But isn’t Revival the total opposite of that – that we sacrifice everything to God! Our time, our money our energy – shouldn’t we sacrifice a part of it to God?

Time spending with Friends – NO – I need to seek God and be part of the greatest awakening that CC has ever experienced…

Time with Family – NO – I need to seek God and be part of the greatest awakening that CC has ever experienced …

Time sitting in front of the TV – NO – I need to seek God and be part of the greatest awakening that CC has ever experienced …

Time resting – NO – I need to seek God and be part of the greatest awakening that CC has ever experienced …

Time for Golf – NO – I need to seek God and be part of the greatest awakening that CC has ever experienced …

Some church leader might say – coming together for prayer on Saturday night would be very tiring for the leaders, since they would be serving on the next day and some pastors preaching 2-3 times. Like I said – sacrifice – we need to see a great awakening in our church. Great awakening… and nothing less.

Do we… want to see CCC’s completion… then get on bended knees

Do we… want to see CC and the fountain head church… then get down on bended knees

Do we… want to see the glory and the name of Jesus lifted high… then get down on bended knees

Do we… want to see all the troubles gone and peace restored…then get down on bended knees

Do we… want to see enthusiasm restored… then get down on bended knees

The congregations need to see our Senior Pastor, Associate Pastors, Deacons and all leaders praying on their knees with tears rolling down freely – yes it is indeed an humbling experience – this is the only way for Revival. Yes we are aware that you do this in your closets but no more please – come out into the public and show us by example.

Are we worried about what the neighbors will think? Come on – there are people dragging us to the Web and Newspapers, some complains from the neighbor will not create a huge impact. If need be we should turn off the sound systems since if it actually we as a church praying for deliverance and conclusion.

I want CC to move on, not get more entangled by more legal proceedings or dissatisfied members. The church needs to move on to make reality the desire of God Almighty for the CC.
Let’s march until the walls of Jericho crumbles down.

Finally – I would like to dedicate this song to CC:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-08YZF87OBQ

May a Christian sue another Christian? Does the Bible permit Christians to file a lawsuit at all?

2010-05-03T06:04:00.000-07:00

This article has been reproduced from -> http://www.christian-attorney.net/christians_lawsuits.html. Please note this article is not in reference to any proceedings or legal undertakings of any specific orgnaization profitable or non-profitable.

May a Christian sue (file a lawsuit against) another Christian?
Does the Bible permit Christians to sue at all?
My prayer is that God will guide you and grant you a proper and practical knowledge, understanding, and wise application of the principles contained in First Corinthians Chapter 6 and related scriptures.

A. Summary:
1. Christian Versus Christian Civil Dispute: According to 1 Corinthians 6:1-8, a Christian is not to civilly file a lawsuit against another Christian in a secular court of law. Rather, the disputed matter should be arbitrated or judged by a wise Christian or Christians. However, in our modern societal system, there are exceptional situations that may not fall squarely within this principle. Such special circumstances will be discussed later in this article. Lastly, if a fellow Christian will not submit to a Christian-based resolution system, then a number of commentators believe that, pursuant to Matthew 18:17, as a last resort, a lawsuit in the secular law courts may be permitted.
Sometimes, the issue is not black and white. In those “gray area” cases, ask God and yourself these questions:
“Is a lawsuit in secular court my only reasonable option, or is there another way to remedy my situation?”
"Do I have an improper motive in filing a lawsuit such as revenge, anger, hurt feelings, stubbornness, impatience, or greed?"
“Is the church equipped to resolve this legal dispute with my brother?”
“Are there Christian lawyers, retired Christian judges, or other professionally trained Christian mediators available to negotiate and/or adjudicate this legal dispute with my fellow Christian?”

2. Christian Versus Non-Christian Dispute: Secular Courts are ordained by God (Romans 13:1-7). Therefore, there is no prohibition against a Christian suing a non-Christian in a secular court.

B. Christian versus Christian Disputes
1. Historical Backdrop: Corinthian Christians in Paul’s time sued their fellow Christians in secular court. But, back in those days, not even the Jews used the secular courts. Rather, in those times, the Jews utilized Jewish arbitrators. Further, in Greek culture, watching civil disputes in the public courts was very popular entertainment. Therefore, legal disputes were very public events.

2. Paul's Response: “How Dare you!” (1 Corinthians 6:1-10 ): “How dare you sue a Christian brother in secular court!” (1 Corinthians 6:1-paraphrased). How dare you utilize “unrighteous” Corinthian judges to resolve inter-Christian disputes! (1 Corinthians 6:1). But Paul's point appears to be that the "Corinthian" judges, as a whole, or in general, were either unbelieving or corrupt or both. (Further, many of the judges/arbitrators were 60 year-old or older lay persons performing required civic duty, as I understand it).
“Law” (Verse 1): “[P]apyri discoveries in the last century reveal that Paul's word was used regularly in a legal context to mean a lawsuit.”
Christians will (with Christ) judge the world and angels. Therefore, believers can competently judge lesser (earthly) matters between two believers (1 Corinthians 6:2-4).
For Christians, spiritual and legal issues commingle and intertwine. Secular, government judges are either unqualified or not permitted to resolve the spiritual issues that may be involved in the dispute (1 Corinthians 2:14-16, 6:4). But wise Christians can discern and judge both the legal and spiritual issues (1 Corinthians 6:5).
Judging an openly “Christian versus Christian” legal dispute in secular court creates a bad witness (This conclusion is indirectly inferred in 1 Corinthians 6:6-7). Pagans will see Christians behaving just like they do and NOT demonstrating God’s love, which hurts the cause of Christ (John 13:5). It would be better to be defrauded by a Christian (and suffer financial loss) than to take them to secular Court because the cause of Christ is more important than money or possessions (See 1 Corinthians 6:7-8). This last point will be elaborated on later in this article.

3. Specific Situations: Many of the situations below may be considered “gray area” matters. Therefore, before deciding a course of action, you need to ask God for wisdom and understanding (Proverbs 2:6, James 1:5). You are also admonished to seek counsel from wise Christians (Psalm 1:1, Proverbs 11:14, 12:15, and 15:22). Lastly, before making a final decision, you ought to have God’s peace in your heart about which decision to make (Colossians 3:15).

a. Criminal Matters: The context of 1 Corinthians 6 is civil legal disputes, not criminal prosecution. With few exceptions, the Government prosecutes crimes. Therefore, a Christian may look to a secular court to prosecute anyone (including Christians) who committed a crime against them (Romans 13:1-7, 1 Peter 1:13-14).

b. Christians Acting on Behalf of Others: When Christians undertake certain legally defined positions, they may, in certain circumstances, have a legal duty to pursue secular legal action (which could potentially involve other believers). Examples: Christian legal guardians; Christian executor of a will; Christian trustees; and Christian parents. These representative examples involve fiduciaries acting on behalf of the beneficiary, child or person of whom they are in charge.
c. Christians Covered by Insurance: In many cases, the person who caused your harm or damage is covered by insurance. Example: Automobile accident cases. What if that insured person is a Christian? In some states, you can sue the Christian’s secular insurance company directly. Therefore you don’t have to directly sue the Christian who harmed you. In other states, you must sue the individual even though the insurance company (surety) is paying for the damages and controlling the case. Obviously, a secular insurance company will rarely, if ever, agree to a Christian dispute resolution process.
For example, if you were seriously injured, out of work, and unable to provide for your family, what do you do if the negligent driver who caused your damages is a Christian? Remember, you have an obligation to provide for your family (1 Timothy 5:8). Therefore, in that situation, seeking fair compensation via an out-of-court settlement through a believer’s insurance company would appear reasonable. Moreover, if the insurance company is unreasonable or disputes liability, you may have to file a lawsuit (or go to trial) in order to obtain compensation for your losses. The Christian versus Christian issue is, I believe, incidental in this matter in nearly all of these types of cases.

What if your injuries were temporary and your own health insurance paid for your bills, but the automobile insurance company won’t pay you as much “pain and suffering” damages as you think is fair? There are sections later in this article that may help you make a wise decision.
In general, I believe that a Christian may seek compensation for injuries from another Christian’s insurance company if the claim is pursued without malice or slander or greed. The following advice may be helpful to you: “Do not initiate anything without first saturating the matter with prayer.” God loves you and wants to guide you in the best path.

d. Christian Filing Bankruptcy: A Christian family of four earns $2,000 per month and has $50,000 in credit card debt, and owes $1,000.00 to their Christian auto mechanic. The Christian files bankruptcy and lists their automobile mechanic as a debtor as required by law. Does this violate principals outlined 1 Corinthians 6? I don’t believe so in most cases. This is a situation where the Christian mechanic is (in nearly all cases) incidental to the matter (other than being owed money). See also "Is Bankruptcy Scriptural? What does the Bible Say?" And "May a Christian File for Bankruptcy Relief?"

e. Christian Evicting a Christian From a Residence or Business Property: A Christian versus Christian landlord-tenant dispute, it seems, can be resolved via Christian mediation or arbitration in most cases. However, in some cases, going to the magistrate may be proper if the Christian tenant refuses to vacate, refuses to pay rent, and refuses to immediately seek a Christian mediator and/or arbitrator to quickly resolve the dispute.

f. Christian Versus Christian Divorce: This article does not address what Biblical grounds for divorce are. Here are, however, some scripture references pertaining to divorce: Matthew 19:1-12; Mark 10:2-12; 1 Corinthians 7:10-16.
A divorce proceeding is a civil matter. However, to obtain a “legal” divorce, some level of government court involvement will be required. The government regulates and grants divorces. Accordingly, divorce falls within Romans 13:1-7, and secular courts may be utilized.
Nevertheless, spiritual and legal issues combine and intertwine in divorce cases. Therefore, as between two Christians, a wise, neutral Christian, ought to be utilized, if possible, to assist in the resolution of the matter.
A number of Christian attorneys in or near your geographical area may offer divorce mediation as a cost-effective option. Alternatively, your church may have a dispute resolution process.
If more than one church is involved, you can have one pastor from each church be involved, and the two pastors can choose a neutral third person to produce a three person panel. Alternatively, you can hire a professional Christian mediator or arbitrator who can negotiate or adjudicate the matter alone or include members of your church or churches in the process. However, there are too many factual variables in a divorce to make one rule to fit all situations. In certain situations, it may be necessary or prudent to pursue the matter through traditional secular court.

g. A Christian refuses to have another Christian evaluate and decide the issue of dispute. What is a Christian refuses to follow 1 Corinthians 6? There are two primary points of view on this subject.
One view believes that if a Christian does not agree to resolve a matter within the Church, then the other Christian is free to sue him or her in civil court in order to seek to achieve justice. The other view is that the Christian should, out of mercy, just accept the wrong done to him or her rather than interjecting a Christian versus Christian dispute into the public area and thereby harming the cause of Christ.
In this matter, pray for wisdom and seek confidential counsel from wise Christians.

h. Wolf in Sheep's Clothing: "What if a person is not truly a Christian?" This is another difficult issue. Some believe that one can sue in secular court if one is convinced the person is not really a Christian even though they profess or claim to be a "Christian. " Others declare that it is dangerous to judge a person as not being a Christian, and that one should play it safe and not sue the alleged wrongdoer.
This may be a factual issue needing to be resolved on a case-by-case basis. However, one should first seek to persuade the wrongdoer to agree to submit to either Christian mediation and/or Christian arbitration per 1 Cor. 6:1-8. If he or she is a member of your particular church, your church may have a dispute resolution system that can be utilized. Pray for wisdom and seek godly advice..

i. "What if I am sued by another Christian in a secular court?" If you are sued by another Christian, you could possibly contact them (or, if they are represented by an attorney, then contact their attorney), and request that, pursuant to 1 Corinthians 6:1-8, this lawsuit be put on hold, or referred by the court to a Christian mediator and/or Christian arbitrator agreed upon by the parties. In any event, in my opinion, you may defend yourself in a secular court in this situation.
If your adversary has a valid case against you, agree to a settlement quickly to avoid further costs, damages and/or attorney’s fees (Matthew 5:25). A speedy settlement will also diminish harm to the cause of Christ by taking the matter out of the public eye.

4. The above examples are illustrative and are not exhaustive. There may be other gray areas as well (e.g. foreclosure, quiet title, and others) while other disputes may fall squarely within 1 Corinthians 6 parameters. Nevertheless, in many or, if not most of these cases, the church or a private Christian mediator or arbitrator (or combination of both) should be able to negotiate and/or judge the matter.

5. Biblical Resolution Method: Matthew 18:15-17 states that a Christian, who is wronged by another Christian, should follow the following four step approach:

Step 1: Address the issue privately, alone with the other believer who you believe wronged you. It that does not resolve the dispute, then proceed to the second step:

Step 2: Repeat Step 1, except, this time, bringing one or two Christian persons to with you seek to help convince the other person of his erroneous ways. If this second step does not solve the problem, then proceed to the third step.

Step 3: Bring the matter before the church. This is where a Christian dispute resolution process comes into play or use of private Christian mediation and/or arbitration. As to this third step (bringing the matter before the church), you normally want to agree with the other party, in a signed writing, that any final decision by the Christian decision-maker(s) is legally binding on the parties. To create a legally enforceable binding agreement, you ought to seek legal counsel to help assure that a valid binding agreement is created. If, after a final decision about the matter is made, the wrongdoer refuses to repent and admit his or her wrongdoing or responsibility, then proceed to the fourth step.

Step 4: Expel the wrongdoer from the fellowship of the church (which modernly, perhaps, means the local fellowship or denomination, as the case may be). (See 1 Corinthians 5:5).
Matthew 18:17 states that "...if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.” A number of commentators take the position that this verse implies or infers that, because all avenues have been exhausted, a believer can now, as a last resort, treat the person like an unbeliever and file a lawsuit against the alleged wrongdoing person in a secular court or law.

If you have a dispute that involves substantial money or property, you should, I believe, in most cases, seek advice from a knowledgeable attorney before implementing these steps above. Seeking legal counsel will build your knowledge base and, in most cases, help you make decisions with greater clarity. Also consider seeking counsel from a Pastor who can further add clarity to the matter.

C. Christian versus Non-Christian Disputes

1. The courts are instituted by God. The government court system is established by God to maintain law, order, and peace in the land (Romans 13:1-7). Christians may, in certain instances, use the secular court system. Even Apostle Paul cited Roman law and utilized secular courts protect his legal rights (Acts 16:37-38, 22:25-29, and 25:10-12).

2. Christians may use secular courts to resolve their legal disputes with unbelievers. 1 Corinthians 6 only applies to Christian versus Christian disputes, but does not apply Christian versus non-Christian disputes.

D. Final Words

God's glory is great gain. Christians still defraud other Christians today. Let assume, for sake of discussion, that a person can’t obtain dispute resolution within the church or by private Christian arbitration. And, after prayer and careful consideration, this person decides to suffer the material or financial loss rather than cause shame to the cause of Christ by suing publicly in a secular, worldly court. Remember this: “Anyone who accepts wrong for the sake of God's glory will not come out the loser.” Recall that Jesus suffered wrongly for us, to the glory of God (1 Peter 3:18, Philippians 2:5-11). “It is far better to lose financially than to lose spiritually.” It is “[b]etter to suffer wrong than to do wrong.” 1 Peter 2:18-25. On the other hand, pursuant to Matthew 18:17, some commentators believe that a Christian may, as a last resort, file a lawsuit in a secular court or law against another Christian who refuses to submit to a Christian-based resolution process.

Wise Christians are available to arbitrate disputes. Today, a believer is, in most cases, without excuse, in failing to find a wise Christian to settle or judge a legal dispute! Today, many Christian conciliation groups exist. Many Christian lawyers and retired judges are willing to provide their services. Many churches have a Christian dispute resolution infrastructure.

"What about justice?" But what if the cheater was not really a Christian, and he or she got away with wronging?

That person will ultimately receive justice. In First Corinthians 6:9-10, Paul turns to the wrongdoer who thinks he got away with his actions. Paul rebukes this person harshly. Some of these Corinthians were preying (not praying) crooks. Paul has a word for them: Practicing "thieves don’t go to heaven!” Those who have not a saving faith in Jesus, and, who, therefore, repent not and have a thieving, dishonest and/or immoral lifestyle will never enter the Kingdom of heaven!

"What about turning the other check?" Matthew 5:39 (“whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also”). Jesus' command to turn the other cheek is radical, but it is not absolute. Turn the other cheek means to allow yourself to be insulted without retaliation. Don’t retaliate or take revenge when you are insulted. However, the government may restrain evil by prosecuting a person who commits a physical assault on another person (Romans 13:4). Further, self-preservation, self-defense from physical harm is, obviously, acceptable.
"What about legal nonresistance?" Matthew 5:40: “And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat [undergarment], let him have thy cloke [outer garment] also.”
If we take these words too literally, Christians would have to institute nudist colonies and other intolerable results. Matthew 5:38-42 is a paragraph and must be taken in context and compared with other scriptures to assure proper, balanced interpretation. A famous and highly respected Bible commentator offers this practical advice:

“If the matter be small, which we may lose without an considerable damage to our families, it is good to submit to it [legal nonresistance] for peace’ sake.” Matthew Henry
Verse 40 must be taken in context with the entire paragraph (Matthew 5:38-42) which corrects how the Pharisees incorrectly taught that "an eye for an eye" allowed personal revenge, when, in the Old Testament, and “eye for an eye” spoke of equitable justice meted out by a governmental body.

The Apostle Paul stood up for his legal rights. But he did not seek revenge or retaliation. Paul and Silas were wrongfully beaten, imprisoned, and chained. Paul defended himself using Roman law (Acts 16:37).

Right Actions With Wrong Motivations: Your motive for taking legal action is crucial. Your motive is wrongful and will cause harm to all if legal action involves greed, revenge, anger, or other ungodly motives.

Christians and Christian Arbitrators may use non-Christian experts. Christians are aptly qualified to evaluate and resolve issues and disputes involving Christian disputants. However, there are times when specialized legal, technical, medical, or scientific knowledge necessary to help resolve the dispute may not be available from a Christian professional or expert. In those cases, it may be necessary to bring in a non-Christian with advanced or specialized medical, legal, scientific or technical knowledge to help the Christian decision-makers make a fair and just decision.

E. Conclusion

Know this, that lawsuits can take on a life of their own. Parties often dig in, fix their legal positions, and cases can become very contentious, stressful, and expensive to pursue. “Believers have the necessary resources to skillfully arbitrate the various issues and problems that pertain to life.” Going to court, while necessary in some instances, should, in general, be a rarity, and a last resort.

“We should seek godly, wise, Spirit-filled and directed counsel within the church to resolve our differences.”
"Church" includes any born-again believer, even the "least esteemed" believers (1 Cor. 6:4).
Notes:

Some groups (a minority in number) believe that a literal reading of this passage in the original Greek language does not refer to secular court lawsuits at all but refers instead to the improper use of unfit persons within the Corinthian church to render judgments.

An even smaller group of people believe that civil lawsuits are not “smallest matters,” and, therefore, 1 Corinthians 6 does not apply to lawsuits

A very small set of people believe that “brothers” refers to family relatives, not Christian brothers.

Copyright 2006, 2009. All rights reserved.

About the author: Matthew B. Tozer is a Christian attorney located in southern California.

1 Corinthians 6:1-11
King James Bible:
1Cr 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

New King James Bible:

“1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! 7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor *homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”

Romans 13:1-7

King James Bible:

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour

New King James Bible:

13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

Matthew 18:15-17

King James Bible:

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

New King James Bible:

15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'* 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.”

Matthew 5:38:42

King James Bible:

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

New King James Bible:

38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'* 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

No Real Victory

2010-04-27T00:11:00.000-07:00

There is no real victory when the body of Christ is so badly injured. We are all guilty of crucifying Christ again on the cross – for the past two three years, we have done it again and again and again.

We have become Pharisees-tical in our ideologies and theologies. We have boxed God and taught others to do the same. We claim to be better Christians than others who disagree with us and we claim to know God better.

We have been guilty of spreading anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, and our choice of words are full of malice and evil intention – and we did them all in the name of Christ.

We have published our faults for the world to see. We tried garnering as much support as we can and get the world to pity us and talk about us – in a very unChrist-like manner. And we claim that what we do is approved by God.

The TTG came to visit Calvary Church last Friday, thinking they could make a difference perhaps? When the offering bag was passed around, some people were making a mockery out of it.

Didn’t Christ said in Matthew 5:23-24 says, “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. FIRST go and BE RECONCILED to your brother; then come and offer your gift.”

How is it that some can come with long sulky papaya faces? The TTG seems to have ignored that there is a group of people who do not welcome the damages they have done to the church. TTG, if you are reading this, can you just stop whatever you are doing?

To the pastors and leaders of Calvary Church, you did a great job by making personal calls to all your members last week. They all came and attended the prayer meeting – it showed that they are still giving you their support. But did you hear how the church situation is damaging all the ministries across the church?

Some ministries have to be disbanded because there were not enough supporters already by now. The members have left. Some ministries have dwindled so much that it is discouraging everyone in the church. Church members are demoralized. Their support is thinning. At one point or another, the thought crossed their minds, “what am I still doing in this church? Where is my church leaders bringing me to? Shall I stay or shall I leave?”

And they are leaving. Before you know it, an event or an incident would trigger an exodus of people leaving. The pews are emptying at a fast rate. If this goes on for another year, what would happen to us in one year’s time?

Dear leaders, please do something fast. Please care for your declining attendance. Please care for your people. Please do something more spiritually solid. Trying to solve the problem with your secular and management ways have proven to bring you half-baked results. Please consult God and do the right thing. Come on, bang heaven with prayers and fasting. No, not TV-fasting or Internet-fasting, or MSN-fasting. We meant fasting from food! The ones mentioned throughout the Bible – from Genesis to Revelation. Don’t convenient the people so much that you have to dilute God’s teaching in such superficial way. It is quite shallow we felt.

Dear TTG, please, some of us would like you out of the picture. We will deal with our senior pastors our way. We do not need you to bring your new cult into our church. This church is not your home church anymore. Please go away – and stay away. We do not need you to fight for us, in fact, we did not request you to fight for us. You did not get the majority’s vote to fight for us.

Dear TTG, please do not teach others your new ideologies on forgiveness. Forgiveness comes with no condition. Jesus did not teach that at all. It is not in the Bible. If forgiveness comes with some terms and conditions, looks like I do not qualify for God’s gift of salvation either. Based on the comments that you approved, looks like the disciples and apostles would not qualify either. Hey, just a reminder though, Peter denied Jesus 3 times and Saul persecuted the Christian church zealously!

Dear regular worshippers who are still in Calvary Church and you are not happy with our church, please spend more time praying for our pastors and for the deacons as well as for the church. We do not want any bad things to happen to anyone – whether in TTG or in Calvary.

We just want healing and reconciliation.

Christian Hate

2010-04-26T01:13:00.000-07:00

Extracted from Raptureready.com
By Ron Graham

“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” Proverbs 6:16 – 19.
Human beings commit the aforementioned abominations all the time. They are nothing new, neither to man nor to God. The writer of the above proverb makes it abundantly clear that God is not at all pleased with these seven weaknesses attributed to us humans. Quite matter-of-factly we’re told God hates them. Strong word hate, especially when attributed to a loving and merciful God. We might be confused after reading such an account about God our Savior; it just doesn’t seem to fit who He is. God hates? I’m perplexed. Yet most Christians know that God’s word is true, and as such we can, and should, realize He does hate all He considers abominations.

Equally puzzling for the non-believer that is, is a reaction of hate or even borderline hate from a follower of Jesus Christ. The analysis of a Christian’s hateful attitude by nonbelievers whenever they encounter said hateful Christian would be one that would most assuredly condemn the whole of Christendom.

Christians should also find all that God refers to as abominations just as offensive even admitting to “hating” all that God abhors. But never are we to hate the people whose lives are consumed with committing these abominations. An attitude of hate displayed by a believer in Christ would certainly be offensive to God.
Was there ever a time during Jesus’ ministry when He exhibited hatred toward another person? What about Jesus’ enemies? “And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him..., Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...” Luke 23:33a-34a. Jesus, during His ministry, was intent on leading everyone He could into an understanding of what the Kingdom of God was all about. During His ministry Jesus encountered hate everywhere, but since He is God he never displayed the slightest hint of hate. He was adamant about forgiveness even to those who nailed Him to that cross.

What then should we do when people display hatred towards us? “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;” Matthew 5:43-44. If Christian’s haven’t learned this simple truth by the time they are off milk and have moved on to the meat of the word then they had better go back and start again. The command to “love thy enemy” is one of the foundational tenets of our Christian faith. It’s one of the first things we learn as a new believer in Christ, never to be forgotten or half-heartedly adhered to. We don’t go around murdering abortion doctors because they are murdering babies in the womb, that would be repaying evil for evil. We should pray for them and ask God to convict and change their hearts.

Shedding of innocent blood can certainly be referring to the wholesale murder of babies in the womb. Just imagine how this atrocity must grieve God; followers of Jesus Christ should be just as incensed at this evil. We should hate this atrocity and be involved in movements that are trying, through peaceful means, to stop such action. But we should never take such desperate action against a fellow human being as to kill them for their participation in these atrocities. Such an extreme response would mean we were allowing hate (Satan) to have authority over our minds and bodies instead of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

Hate is ugly, it’s an ugly word and it’s an ugly reaction. Hate will permeate the body of a believer and destroy their very soul if it’s allowed to fester like an open sore. Many people hate Christians, nothing new in that statement. But how should a Christian react to hatred when it is aimed explicitly at them? The knee jerk worldly reaction is to strike back with everything we have as we defend ourselves.

As believers, if we are being physically harmed or attacked we should defend ourselves and our families; we would be remiss if we didn’t. But hatred expressed verbally is only words, and if that be the extent of our harassment our reaction should be one of piety accompanied with prayer. Even if we find ourselves capable of outwitting an antagonist through superior intellect, love for that person should be expressed through whatever actions we display. Nothing good can be accomplished through an attitude that even remotely resembles hate.

Over the past few years we’ve probably all become painfully aware of a Christian cult based in Kansas which can’t seem to keep their church and its members out of the news. Why? Because they seem to be filled with hate. This group of individuals, who erroneously stake claim to the blood of Christ, continually spew hatred at funerals of fallen military personal as they are being laid to rest. They actually turn up at these funerals of our fallen hero’s and chant and wave ugly hateful signs while disrupting the service and offending the loved ones who are of course grief stricken. This Christian Cult has taken hatred to a whole new level, all the while denying the love of Christ through their deplorable actions. If one can call these folks Christians then they would be the embodiment of Christian hate.

God watched as man beat, spit upon, humiliated, and then murdered His only begotten Son. Most humans would retaliate against those who participated in that horror of hate, but not God. God doesn’t hate His creation, He loves us. People who promote hate towards others are not of God. As a matter of fact they can’t possibly even have read and understood God’s word and still spew hatred. It’s not possible for born again believers to follow God’s precepts and hate anyone. To love our enemies is a commandment not a suggestion.

Some people hate for no reason, others have a ton of reasons yet none of them valid in God’s eyes. If God tells you to love those who hate and persecute you then love must be the key. Have you ever tried to hate someone you love? It’s not possible. Yes you can have arguments, even long disagreements, you can become discouraged and even get mad and frustrated with them, but if you love them you can’t hate them. God knew that simple truth and that’s why He commands us to love our enemies. Hate cannot grow or even survive in an atmosphere of love.

“Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.” Psalm 34:21. God is our defender and protector and as the verse above states, God will take appropriate action against those who hate us. There can be no continual blessings from God for those who hate the righteous. If they hate us they must also hate God. Imagine the horrible eternal punishment they will receive if they stay in that mindset until death. They need our prayers not hate.

“Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven:...” Luke 6:22-23. Here Jesus tells us it’s a blessing to be hated for His name sake. Rejoice and leap for joy? How is that possible? By knowing your reward is great in Heaven. God Almighty promises you and me great rewards when we get to Heaven. That should be worth enduring all the hate people can throw at us.

“Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.” 1 John 3:13. The Apostle John is basically saying it should come as no surprise that the world hates those who belong to Christ. Why do they hate us so? Because they hate being convicted of sin and just hearing the word Christian or Jesus Christ convicts them. People want to be able to wallow in the muck and the mire of sin without any consequences. They especially don’t want to be told they are doing something against God.

Without a doubt Christians are being killed every day for one reason, many people hate Jesus the Messiah so much that they need a release for that hatred and Jesus’ followers make for a perfect release. Until they come to realize Satan is behind their hatred manipulating their actions they will remain in that murderous mode.

“Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” Romans 12:17-18. Love and hate make impossible bedfellows. Hate in a Christians heart will nullify the precious Gospel of Christ. Get rid of hate before it festers. Christians are to live peaceably with all men. How is that possible if we allow hatred toward our fellow man to rule our hearts? Besides that the enemy will build his stronghold in a Christians life where hated is allowed to dwell.

My dad had a great way of contending with people who displayed hatred toward him. I would say “Dad are you going to let that guy get away with that remark?” My dad’s response was always “Just consider the source and forget it Ron”. Great advice but I would go a step further. Consider that that person is probably not saved and pray for them.

“Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.” Romans 12:20. In other words, by loving your enemy you might just help bring him to the Lord. It’s all about loving others the way God loves us, unconditionally. People, for the most part that is, will respond to loving kindness with kindness. What’s that old adage? “You can attract a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

The cult I mentioned above would do well to embrace loving kindness instead of spewing hate. There’s no way for Jesus to be found in the middle of such an outlandish attitude. What those folks are doing is convincing the unbelieving world that Christians are full of hate. Witnessing, as we are commanded to do, is our opportunity to promote the Gospel of Christ by sharing it with unbelievers.

Using a false gospel (one filled with hate) as a witnessing tool as the aforementioned cult provides is, simply put, folly. If hate is the message, non-believers will stay away. They already live in the world, which is full of hate, why would they want to jump from the frying pan into the fire? The lost are searching for something different, something set apart from that which they already have.

To feel anger or entertain thoughts of resentment because someone has horribly wronged you is a normal worldly response, but Christians are no longer in that category. For Christians to take a harsh stance against another person who belittles them, even during a fleeting moment of frayed emotions, is wrong. We should pray about any such situation then submit those emotions into the Holy Spirit’s most capable hands and allow Him to take control. Recompensing evil for evil is contrary to God’s word. A believer’s life is to be filled with a loving and caring attitude toward our fellow man, evil hateful attitudes are worldly. We believers have been born from above, from God; we are no longer of the world.

Is there such a thing as Christian hate? Should there be hate in a Christian’s heart? As I’ve just laid out, hate disrupts lives and destroys the love we hold for one another, even our enemies. My answer then is no. If you are a Christian today and you have hate in your heart, repent and ask the Lord for His help in removing that hate. It is God’s good pleasure to fill you with His love and joy, and in doing so He promises you peace, a much greater possession, in lieu of hate.

My final thought is this, even using that offensive word to describe something that you detest should be discouraged. Jokingly proclaiming I hate this or I hate that can give rise to an attitude of condoning instead of condemnation of a more severe and less jokingly hateful attitude. There are plenty of other ways to express one’s self without using that particular offensive word. For example, I love this and I love that. Allow love run supreme in your vocabulary.
God bless you all,

Ron Graham
All scripture is from the KJV

Knowing God

2010-04-20T04:39:00.000-07:00

I have read some comments written on the CT blog and I am VERY PERPLEXED at how some people made comments such as:-

“God doesn’t work this way”
“God’s righteousness is tainted by those in CC”
“let’s have a prayer meeting outside…… let’s inform the international pressmen”
“PG is a rogue pastor who sees himself beyond reproach….”

I am even more perplexed that the administrator at CT actually allowed some of these badly constructed comments to be published. Some of these comments actually leave a very very bitter after-taste when you close your browser!

Many people who commented at CT claimed that they know God’s way. Show me a brother who disagree with the post at CT and I will show you perhaps 50 other brothers who come attacking that gentle brother! I can even list down the names these 50 brothers would use on that one gentle brother:-

- blind follower of PG and BOD
- pro-PG supporter
- spiritually immatured
- brainwashed by PG and BOD
- lacking in faith
- have faith in PG instead of God
- trusting in PG instead of God
- and the list goes on…

How sure are we that the people who left these comments at CT are truly people who really know God?

Can that person who claimed that “God’s righteousness does not work this way” really do know God’s righteousness? Can God trust him enough to be His ambassador here? Does he read God’s Word from cover to cover at least once a year? Does he spend time in quietness and stillness before the Lord everyday? Or, does he read his Bible everyday? Or pray everyday?

People who practice all these spiritual disciplines DO reflect more of Christ in their lives.
When things go wrong, they would instead go to God in prayer and would not spend their time blogging and commenting and contributing further negative remarks on some public blogs on the Internet.

Sure, the leadership of Calvary Church, Rev Prince Guneratnam and his family, the Board of Deacons, the associate pastors, and etc, they are not perfect people, but are we perfect ourselves?

We do know one thing, that the people who commented at CT are people who have been genuinely hurt and are deeply disappointed at the leadership of CC. But what differentiate us from them is that, we choose to forgive the leadership of CC, and we choose to pray along with them till God bring about the desired breakthrough and revival to the church.

Yes, there are times when we know the anointing was absent and sometimes may have left us to fend for our own in some meetings, but it does not mean that God does not care. There are many times too, that our meetings are just mere programs that have been planned to the very minute of what to say and how to say them, but it does not mean the church will continue to be like this in the next few years, nor does it show that God is not at work.

So, we just need to continue to pray for the leadership at Calvary Church. They need fresh anointing, new revival, genuine breakthrough and spiritual awakening too. It is time we pray for them to experience all these, and not complain about them. It is seriously time we pray for them to go down on their knees and let God dictate every prayer meetings, every Sunday services, every Christian meetings in the church. Let’s pray for humility for them and for those who have been hurt and for those who want to have a proper closure to this whole thing.

But in the mean time, let’s not our speech divide further the body of Christ. Let our choice of words draw one another closer to reconciliation – and not away from it.

Let us pray.

-

The Results of the Injunction 15 April 2010

2010-04-15T05:44:00.000-07:00

We were informed that the judge has reinstated the membership of the 7 plaintiffs of the court case and not the entire list of those whose membership has been downgraded. That is the result of the injunction today.

There are times when it is best to practice discretion and check your information with trusted sources and not from any random website.

It is because of misleading information or “specific truths” information that some people were misled.

ON OUR KNEES

2010-04-14T04:45:00.000-07:00

Last Friday, I went to prayer meeting at Calvary Church. I don’t know what to expect. People said it was getting from boring to more boring. But I went after my meeting anyway. It was not very crowded. Over the year, the attendance has gone down. This blog has been talking about prayer. I want to share what I felt last Friday.

Back of sanctuary was sectioned off because of few people around. When worship began, we sang songs I like, Be Magnified, O Lord, and Who Compares With You? These are great songs to sing because they focus on God. They reminded me of the words, “One day in the house of the Lord is better than a thousand days in the world”. It was so true. I was stirred. Then God asked me: “Why don’t you like coming to My prayer meeting?” The worship leader gave time for us to stand or kneel or lift our hands—do anything, but just face God and pray to Him. I just lifted my hands and asked God to fill me and forgive me. I was fed-up and discouraged...then we sang the song Be Magnified again. The verse says I have believed in a lie that God could not help me, and I had made Him too small. Too small to help me, too small to come into the bad situation of our church and do a wonderful thing. That was me. I did not want to come to prayer meeting because I was so discouraged by the things around. All the bad feelings. All the negative comments. Life group meeting is not about praying together and studying God’s Word but a gossip session about the deacons and pastors and all the stupid decisions they make...
Last Friday God spoke to me. He told me He has not skipped one prayer meeting since all this trouble started. He said boring worship leader or not boring one, He was still attending prayer meeting. When I looked around, I saw many empty seats. I thought of my friends. Just a few years ago, we all came to prayer meeting together. We even planned where to sit together after SCG. They are not here anymore. Some left the church. Some can’t be bothered to rush for prayer meeting after work.

When we prayed in groups of 3, we prayed for the Spirit to fill our hearts. I realized if God is not with us, we cannot do anything. We cannot even breathe. No need to think we can raise funds for CCC. Money is not the answer. We can have all the money we want, but our church will not be healed. But if God is with us, then we do not have to be anxious, afraid, or worried.
At the altar, a sister prayed for AGM. This AGM...I don’t know...I said to myself maybe I won’t come this time. It is not the ten hours or two hours. It is the attitude and the atmosphere. Last year EGM and AGM was so horrible. But the sister prayed, “God, our times are in Your hands”. He knows exactly what we are going through! It is a hard road, but God is with us. All through the meeting, I felt God so near to me. At the altar I realized that my life, my today, my tomorrow, everything is in His hands. He knows everything I am going through. He knows everything the church is going through. Why? Because He is the Lord. He is our God and Master.
The Lord rebuked me last Friday for my respond in the past to prayer meeting. It was the best rebuke I have got. From now on, I will attend prayer meeting. If I don’t it is for good reasons like I am outstation etc. I will remember that God is attending. It is my meeting place with Him. If worship leader is boring, I will pray for them instead of complaining and gossiping. (I am sorry I complained in the past)

We poured out our problems at the feet of God. From worship leader to groups to individuals and the altar. I felt we just poured all our tears and frustrations out to Him. I believe that He heard us. I believe that His heart is touched.

God also spoke another thing. When I look at the empty seats He said “Don’t worry. I just need a handful of faithful prayer warriors.” So we must encourage our friends to come for prayer meeting because it is good for them. But we don’t have to worry that God will not hear us if only a few of us pray. God is not interested in numbers. He is interested in hearts.

I am not writing to praise anyone or attack anyone. I don’t want to take this side or that side. All I know is Calvary Church is going through a not easy road. God wants us to take our tears to Him and pour our saddest feelings and sorrows to Him. From the way I read some of these articles here, I think God is saying something same to many of us. He wants to comfort and embrace us. He is calling this church to be down on our knees to pray to Him and seek His face.

“Down at Your feet O God is the Most High Place...” Praise the Lord! Amen.

Comment for "Try A Little Kindness":

2010-04-09T08:13:00.000-07:00

This little test shows a lot on the character & intention of CT. If there is any consolation in CC saga, I'm kind of glad that in many way CT is showing lots of selfishness & ungodly manner. Well, first of all, CT is lying with eyes wide open saying that they experience some sort of 'computer glitch', therefore some kind comments towards Rev. Prince & leadership in CC was not published.
I'm kind of glad as well that almost everyone who read CT would have an impression that CT is part of TTG. In simple terms, CT=TTG. I don't mean that I'm happy to see disunity in CC, but given a bit more of time, the true color of CT/TTG shows in their deeds & words. Perhaps this is a sign from God to show us who CT/TTG really are.
Don't you think so? Both side are claiming to have God backing up their act & cause. For example,1. CC belief CCC is God's vision; CT/TTG belief CCC is the promoting Freemason. 2. CC urge CC members to give to build God's temple; CT/TTG urge CC members don't give to CCC cause CCC is a temple for Freemason. 3. Majority CC members trust God & belief leadership in CC is God's ordained & God is in control of everything happen to His Calvary Church; CT/TTG trust God & belief it's God's Will to reject CC's leadership & so they are doing everything possible to accomplish their mission by having a gossiping blog, demonstration & taking legal action.
The differences on both sides are obvious, but certain people are just not sure how to discern of which to belief.
Don't trust anyone who ask you not to give to CCC or leave CC. Don't even trust me also if I tell you to continue attending CC & give faithfully. But use God's wisdom to discern the fruit of both party.
The Bible gave us a hint that if we show love, people will know we are of Jesus & we are His disciples. We all has the ability to discern who demonstrate love & who is not. The knowledge of us knowing who is the true disciples of Christ lies in our own discernment, but not because CT or anyone else gossip & told you that CC leadership does not show love. In many obvious way, CT/TTG ways of behaving is way too obvious of being very unloving & unchristian. One very obvious mistake by CT & TTG is, instead of looking at their selfishness & unloving manner, they kept making accusation & insinuations against CC's leadership. If I have 1 reason to doubt CC's leadership, I certainly have 100 reasons to doubt the claims & comments made by CT & TTG.
Don't you think so? I belief this site has other christian readers from other churches. If you think the CT/TTG is serving a good cause, do you like if some of them start a blog similar to CT called DUMC Today, FGA Today or SIB Today?

Try A Little Kindness

2010-04-09T02:43:00.002-07:00

Before that, try a little experiment.

Write something really nice about Rev Prince Guneratnam, or the Board of Deacons, or the Associate Pastors, and then post it to the blog belonging to those who are not happy with Calvary Church.

Then, write something angry, or something bitter about the same group of people and post it up to the same blog.

We can assure you that none of the comments from the first attempt will get through!
The blog administrator will disapprove, or ignore every nice things you gotta say about Rev Prince Guneratnam and his team.

That is also the reason why the blog sounded a little angry and bitter, and it is reflecting as though nobody has any good things to say about the leadership of Calvary Church.

So, we are urging everyone to try a little kindness – pray for the church, and speak the Word of God to one another, and edify the body of Christ with one another.

Work towards the reconciliation of the body of Christ, and do not pass remarks that arouse anger and unforgiveness or bitterness to anyone – cuz those things are not the product of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Let Us Pray Part 2

2010-04-09T02:43:00.001-07:00

We urge the leadership of Calvary Church to pray together with your members. The problem is not negligible anymore. Your pews are not filled and your members are running way to other churches. You cannot deny that there exist a problem in the church and that all these while your problems are still neatly swept under the carpet.

By not dealing with the problem from the pulpit does not mean your members are not aware of it and it also does not mean they do not care any less. It also does not mean they are not affected by this whole entire boxing match. They have been frequently asked by others who are worshiping elsewhere what they are still doing in Calvary Church. They have been questioned by people everywhere and nobody seems to have any updates on the whole matter.

The silence is very deafening.

Do not stop praying for the CCC. Your church will stand behind you. Yet, do not leave them out from your decisions. They will pray for you, but just let them know WHAT to pray for. Sending “God bless the church” prayers to heaven goes nowhere. You are not covered with any intercession at all.

So, leaders of Calvary Church, if you are reading this, please, gather your members together. And pray.

THRILLA IN DAMANSARA!

2010-04-07T08:45:00.000-07:00

Calvary Church has been in a boxing match for last few years. We are all wondering who will win. This fight is just like Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier’s fight in Manila in 70s. It was so great that HBO made a documentary of it called Thrilla in Manila. The fight was so close that no one knew who would win. If Eddie Futch, Joe’s trainer, did not stop the fight after round 14, who knows what would have happened? It was a real tough one. Everytime I think of that fight, I think of us today because that’s what Calvary Church is going through now! We just don’t know who is going to win. There are two sides in two corners of this boxing ring, and the boxers look like they are going to fall if someone doesn’t stop the fight. This is Thrilla in Damansara!

We members are praying for somebody to just stop this. What law case, now injuntion, etc etc, I fight you, you fight me goings-on are draining the church dry! When we read about our church in the newspapers, we don’t know what to think anymore. When our friends and families ask us what is going on, we don’t know how to answer anymore. Can someone please help us?

We are not against our leaders. But we wish they would talk to us more and tell us what on earth is happening? Can or not? Can you guys tells us what is going on? We don’t want to see in the papers, then only you come and make some announcement. That is not right. We would love to pray for our deacons and pastors more. We can see that you are going through tough times. Please can you let us in??

We also have friends in the ttg. They have been members for many years. Only in last few years we hear so much grumbling from them. Before that, we can remember some of them and Pastor G. were good friends. What happened? They tell us long stories about this and that...but we are thinking how come they took so long to find out...and what happened to the friendship? KO. (KO is not kopi-o... we are not starting a new group to challenge teh tarik. KO means knockout.)
Now they are going to resolve problems...you know how? Boxing match. More KOs coming.
Is that right? Before this year, we got shouting match in EGM. Terrible. But that was just the beginning! Last year, AGM went on for TWO days—more than TEN hours! (This year, I want to go home and sleep after 9pm. Some of my friends want to bring coffee and supper with them...they ta pao early, then come to church. Like this, I bring pillow) Worse, now take boxing match to law court, so everybody can see. Can Christians behave like this? Not that we like to suffer, but Jesus also suffered. He never pointed His fingers at anybody. His Body should be the same. We cannot act like the world. We must be different. If not, how can the world see that God is with us? How can they tell that we love one another as Christ loves us? We are like the body’s finger pinching the leg and saying “I hate you!” Or the body’s hand slapping its own face and saying “You are a liar!” We are crazy! We are blue black already! How much can we stand some more?

Look at our church. So many people have gone! Really, they have left and joined other churches. Now they serve there and God is blessing them. But then when we announce our AGM, they want to come back and vote! Crazy! But so many people have gone because of tears and bitter words...this is so, so sad...

I think we are already near Round 14 of our boxing match. I don’t know who will stop the fight if we keep going like this...maybe if God sees that we are going to drop dead, He will do something to save us. Maybe we should ask the church to do what the brother or sister wrote about praying all together. I heard one or two people talking about this, but nothing happened after that. Maybe we can ask for that. Let’s all come together to pray. We should seek God’s face first of all. We should go to Him and cry out to Him. If we don’t have Eddie Futch to help us, God will always help us because He promised He will not leave us or abandon us! LET’S ALL PRAY FOR OUR BELOVED CALVARY CHURCH!

Let Us Pray

2010-04-07T00:47:00.000-07:00

There were way too many “qualified” people making remarks such as “we should have …. “, “they should have….” or, “they should not have…..”

At coffee shops, online chats, MSN, or Skype, or at Murni SS2, or any other mamak stall, you see and hear people giving their opinions of what has happened to Calvary Church recently.

There were way too many people giving too many versions of what actually happened, but too few people who really want to go shake hands with one another and unite everybody together. Too many people think they know better, and too few people wanna do what is right.

One party shouting “they do not want to reconcile!!!” and the other party whispering, “we can’t make it to the appointment yet, but they do not want to wait for us to give them another date”.

To be frank we do not know what happened behind closed doors, but we do know that some facts are exaggerated by some parties, while other facts are hidden by some parties.

There were too much anger shared and spread, and too much unforgiveness and bitterness dividing the body of Christ. This caused many of us to think, “what happen to the message of the cross? Has it really been effective??” And this is an insult because our God is greater than all the problems faced by Calvary Church or anyone else at the moment!!

By now, there isn’t anymore who’s right and who’s wrong. Everyone who has passed some form of judgmental remarks at least once is guilty of spreading division to the church in one way or another. Is this truly God’s will??

Christ died for His church – which is His bride – and His body - and He does not need to do it again and again. Are we doing God a favour by passing some unkind remarks on some anonymous blogs? Do we really think that God approve our actions of pointing fingers at one another, screaming and shouting, “you’re wrong!!”

The silent majority – which we represent accurately – would want to see this whole saga comes to an end NOW, if not sooner. We do not need anymore Christian cowards (an obvious oxymoron) hiding behind some anonymous moniker and passing some ghostly divisive remarks for the whole world to read.

So, we appeal to members of the Body of Christ, to pray for healing for Calvary Church – on both sides of the divide. Neither should we see each other as “that side” or “this side”, or “support or oppose”, or “against or for” and etc etc!! We should all go down on our knees and plead God for His forgiveness because we have been unkind to one another.

You in the SCG department, you have moved out and moved on, do not teach others to backbite against Calvary Church and do not encourage anyone to leave the church!! That’s NOT your call!!

You who were once in the CW department! You have moved out and move on, so do not send out anymore emails stating how badly you have been used by the leaders! You were a blessing once, so be a blessing now, and do not build up bitterness in your heart anymore. Move on and smile! It’s NOT worth it!

You, who used to sing in the choir of God’s goodness, now don’t you dare sing of how you were a second class citizen in Calvary Church! God saw you and you had a first class citizenship in heaven, so rejoice for that fact!!!

And you who once served as a lifegroup leader, repent and do not mislead your (ex) lifegroup members by your divisive actions!

You in the communications department, DO NOT communicate negative remarks about Calvary Church to those in other churches. Calvary Church belongs to God and not to you. Why are you criticizing God’s work in Calvary Church? Can you do a better job than God? If not then shut up!!

You who were once a ministry leader and now serving as a leader in another church, stop and pause and have a good closure to your past. Do NOT bring your bitterness over to your new church! They are innocent! Repent.

To you who are reading this, please please pray for Calvary Church.

If you are a leader of Calvary Church and you are reading this, come on, organize a prayer meeting and plead heaven for forgiveness. There is no breakthrough in your causes because you have not prayed enough and you have not done enough. You have not mobilize your intercessors enough, and you have not seek God enough. Your members are not too well informed to pray enough for you.

Your members love you and they are united with you. Leverage on that! They will be more than happy to intercede and pray for you, but let them know what is happening. They may be sheep, but you are also a sheep yourself. So, let’s ask the Great Shepherd to help us. We need to get out from this mess. It is damaging us for far too long.

So, we ask you who are reading this, please pray. Either you support those who oppose the church, or you support the leadership of Calvary Church, it does not matter because you belong to the Body of Christ and it is your duty to pray for healing for Calvary Church.

Here are some prayer points to assist you. May you be led by the Holy Spirit to pray accordingly.

Leadership of Calvary Church
(ex)members and regular worshippers who have moved on
existing members of Calvary Church
brothers and sisters who have been genuinely hurt for carelessness on “both sides”

May God bless His church and may the church heal fast enough for a great major revival breakthrough in Malaysia!

Calvary One: Unity In One

2010-04-05T00:31:00.002-07:00

Were you there at Calvary Church Easter sunrise service at the national stadium at Bukit Jalil? Did you see their performances? Their happy faces? Reflected their happy hearts?

If you are looking for some juicy news, we have some for you.

The Calvarites who served in the Good Friday and Sunday morning Easter sunrise services are very happy people!! No, they are not sad, neither were they angry at their Senior Pastor!

We have heard many people passing such remarks:-

“Mr Chan is still worshipping at Calvary Church. Poor dumb sheep, he doesn’t know what he is doing. He must be a pro-SP supporter. I pity him.”

“Ms Tan is not leaving Calvary Church. She is very blind. Those Calvarites do not know the truth and they are blinded to the truth.”

“Hey, I pity our friends who are still there. When are they ever going to grow spiritually and learn to see that SP is a wicked man?”

“I am disappointed with Mr Lim! He is such a disgrace! When I talk to him about the necessity to leave Calvary Church, he defended SP! How can??”

“We have left the music and creative arts department and the church altogether! We are waiting to see how it is going to collapse under the son-in-law’s leadership!!”

Guess what, they DO NOT need your pities and sympathies. This past weekend’s services said it all – they are happy people with very happy attitude and a very happy reason to celebrate a happy season!

They have chosen to suffer alongside their senior pastors and their church. Ask any members who were involved in the production, ask those who served breakfast, ask those who helped ushered guest, visitors and members, ask the car park attendant – you can see a great spirit of unity among them.

See the smiles on their faces! And hear them exchanging testimonies with one another! That is a true feeling of belonging, and certainly, they have chosen to stay with their church through tough times! They have God’s joy in them, and God’s joy has given them strength to go through times like these when their senior pastors have been badly bashed on the Internet.

They are certainly not blind nor sad people, and they are certainly sheep who are trusting the Jesus the Good Shepherd to lead them to the Promised Land. They are not perfect and they do not require our sympathy. They reflected a trusting heart in Jesus. God Himself will lead Calvary Church out from this storm!

Oh, some TTG supporters who signed the memorandum have confirmed with us that there are LESS THAN 100 signatures on the memorandum!! And you know, there are less than 80 people who turned up on that day to hand the memorandum to SP! What you see in the newspaper, is more or less, that’s about it!

No wonder the bible says in 1 Peter 5:8, “be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.”

Yeah, he roared like a roaring lion, but he is not a lion at all!

God bless you all and may we reflect the power of the resurrection in our lives!
(And stop all those babbling online! It reflects a dead cross!!!)

“IF”

2010-04-05T00:31:00.001-07:00

A little girl kneels beside her bed at night to say her goodnight prayers, “dear Lord Jesus, if I have offended mummy today for not waking up on time, please forgive me. If I have made daddy upset for refusing to brush my teeth, please forgive me also.”

Jesus’ respond to this little girl’s goodnight prayer, “IF? IF? Nahh little girl. You’re not sincere. I can’t forgive you”. (don’t you thank God that this is just fictional???!!)

A young teenage boy romanticizing his girlfriend, “dear, I will love you with all my life. Can’t wait to spend my life with you. If I have said anything, or may do anything that may make you unhappy, please forgive me?” Unfortunately, his girlfriend’s reply, “IF? What do you mean “IF”? You’re not sincere!! No, I am not going to forgive you! Let’s break up!!”

A secretary thanking her boss for a bonus she just received, “Boss, thank you for this blessing. The money will come in handy. If I have done anything that wasn’t right in the past year, please forgive me. I meant to do well.” Her boss’ reply, “IF? What do you mean “IF”? You’re not sincere enough! No, I am not going to forgive you. Hey, someone, please advertise for the position of a new secretary! This one is not sincere enough despite a bonus!!”

A businessman, waiting anxiously to clinch a deal that will bring a new breakthrough to his business, was asked to wait for the decision from one of his big time customer. The wait was agonizing. So, he prayed, “Father God, bless the business. It is Yours Oh Lord! If I have sin in my life, please forgive me. I do not know why I have to wait so long for their decision, but if I have done anything that is not right in their eyes and in Your eyes, please forgive me”. God’s respond, “IF? That’s not sincere enough! No I can’t forgive you”.

Let’s reverse the role a little bit.

A member of a church walking up to his priest and say, “father, thanks for praying for me last week. I just want to say sorry if I have done anything that may have offend you in the past few months. Please forgive me”. The father’s respond, “IF? You must show sincerity whenever you apologise. Because you did not show sincerity, I can’t forgive you”.

We thank God that all the above scenarios are just mere fictional! But this is the exact measure that Rev Prince Guneratnam had been judged last year when he made a public apology in their Sunday morning Easter service. His “IF… I have offended anyone” was discussed and analyzed at great length by some. And these people have judged the “no, we shall not forgive him” sentence on him. Worst, we read things like, “let’s youtube him!” and etc with regards to this. Isn’t this a very childish and un-Christlike act?

Didn’t Jesus forgive Peter prior to his three times denial?
Didn’t Jesus forgive Judas before the great betrayal took place?
Didn’t Jesus plead with the Father for forgiveness on the Roman soldiers even though the Roman soldiers did not say, “I am sorry”?

Didn’t Jesus forgive us all, even before we confess our sins and accept Him to be our Saviour, and saving us from eternal damnation?

So, what right do we have to say to Prince Guneratnam, “You used the word “IF” in your apology. So we cannot forgive you!”.

With the measure we judge others, with the same measure we will be judged also.

Here is what the Bible says about this, in a very serious tone.

1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Anyone who does not accept the public apology made by Rev Prince Guneratnam, but instead teaches others to do the same, is in a grave danger of facing God’s wrath.

So dear readers, IF we have written anything that may prick your hearts and arouse your anger, we are sorry, please forgive us.

The scripture above is taken from Romans 2:1-8.

LET’S CLOSE THIS!

2010-04-02T05:28:00.000-07:00

This weekend is Easter. Christians will celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus from the grave. We will praise God for giving us new life and making us new creations in Him through His Spirit (2 Corinthians 5: 17). It’s going to be wonderful. God reminds us that the power that raised Jesus from death also lives in us—that’s the ‘dynamite’ power of the Spirit of God. I am so looking forward to the Easter Sunrise Service at 6.30am on Sunday morning!

But then what happens after that? We will rejoice that Jesus came to save sinners and wash us clean from sin...then when we get home, we will switch on our computers and start reading blogs that tell us our pastors are horrible, our deacons are horrible...and Calvary Church is dying. We will call our friends to gossip about the latest rumour... “Wahh, you know, so-and-so has been called to the witness stand la...”, “Aiyoh...you don’t know how they hide things from us lah”, “Ai say, you got hear about the $$$$ in the bank account ahh??”

I think we got to be consistent here, ok? Either Jesus has really die for us, been resurrected and now cleanse us from all sin...or He is not! Either we all are brothers and sisters in Christ...or we are not! Either we forgive other people who injure and hurt us...or we do not! Cannot be sometimes yes, sometimes no. If we are so double-minded, then who is Jesus Christ to us? How can God answer our prayers then?

I don’t like what is happening to Calvary Church. When I read this blog and that blog, I am sad that our church problems cannot seem to end. We are a quarrelling family. That is not what God wants for us as His children. We cannot behave like we have so many ‘rights’. If someone does not give us our ‘rights’, then we start shouting and screaming like little children throwing tantrums. We cannot behave like we own everything also. If people don’t like it, then too bad, they can go somewhere else. You know, both attitudes are no good.

Jesus never behaved like that. He was firm but kind. He was outspoken, but knew when to keep His peace. He always knew what to do and how to do it. I wish we were more like Him. He prayed to God, looked to God and focused on God to answer Him. He never looked to man or asked the Romans to give Him a helping hand! How come we do these things today? We cannot handle an AGM (only once a year!), then we go and rent a lawyer... we don’t like the debit and credit columns that we see, then we start shouting, “CBT! CBT!” Worse, we didn’t see our names on some list, we call reporters to take pictures, man! What are we coming to?

I think I am fed-up already. I think many of you are too. Sure, there are hurts...on all sides. Sure, sometimes, we want things to be done better and clearer...sure, sure, sure! But can we try to settle these things as Christians, and not “worse than the unbelievers”? People are looking at us. Some feel sorry for us. Some are laughing away. What have we done to Jesus’ reputation? I don’t know how Calvary Church is going to stand on Judgement Day before God. What are we going to tell God? How come as brothers and sisters—closer even than flesh and blood relatives in Jesus’ Name!—we cannot settle things with sacrifice and humility? How come must go to police and court? I don’t understand how this glorifies God.

No, no and no! Let’s stop this. Let’s close this. Ok? Why not we ordinary Calvarites who love our church call up and sms our leaders and tell them this: LET’S CLOSE THIS! I think we are the majority. Correct? For the sake of Jesus’ glory, let’s call everyone we know and tell them that it is time to stand united! We don’t want anymore nonsense quarrelling! We don’t want anymore shouting, police report, court case and what have you! Stop all this!
We want reconciliation.

We want to see the quarrelling sides shake hands and restore fellowship.

We want Wong Hong Meng and Senior Pastor to say to each other: “I love you and forgive you.” In public!

We want our church back again!

Leaders and ttg, are you listening? Don’t let this Easter go by without something good being done in Jesus’ Name.
Swallow your pride! Humble yourselves! Be reconciled!

ARE YOU LISTENING??

Why I'm Still in Calvary

2010-04-02T05:20:00.000-07:00

The past year plus, we have seen a big exodus of Calvarites leaving the church and going to other churches. The recent membership update shows that many who left asked for transfer of membership elsewhere. Other churches in KL and PJ are recording increase of members! This is so uncool because it’s not an actual increase of people coming to the Lord...

What about Calvary Church? From the membership update, it is just so clear to me that the sheep have been scattered. The bible says that happens when the shepherd has been struck (Matthew 26: 31). The update is not about a witch hunt like some people say...it’s a factual description of the sad things that have been going on in our church for too long.

Last Sunday, we noticed how empty the pews were during service. Some people said it was because many families had gone home for Ching Ming. Well...is it only this year that people go back to hometown for Ching Ming? How come it’s this year that we noted the empty seats?
People have asked me: “Why are you still in this terrible church? When are you going to leave?” I get so mad when they do this! If they want to leave, they should leave, but please, don’t go round encouraging others as well! I tell them that this church may be going through tough times, but it is still the Body of Christ! And as members of the church, I am not going to desert anyone by running off elsewhere! When Calvary Church was doing well, I was part of the Body. Now that it is not doing so well, I am still part of the Body. Now I’m not judging anyone for their actions...all I’m saying is this: through thick or thin, I’m here to stay! The only way I’ll leave is when I hear God telling me straight that I have to go...and not when people ask me annoying questions, not when people tell me nasty things about the leaders...I’m in Calvary Church because it is important for me, ordinary member, to show that I can be faithful like Jesus was faithful. I don’t want to be a fair weather friend, and I don’t want to give up on my leaders just because they aren’t perfect.

Now we come to this perfect-imperfect part. I know for a fact that the pastors in Calvary Church are totally imperfect. That’s because they are human. Sometimes, they really annoy me you know...but sometimes, I annoy them too! But just because they are human, I’m not going to accuse them of all kinds of rotten things. No way. I want to remember that when I was sick, they prayed for me, visited me. When I didn’t go for life group, they asked me how come. (Ok, they bugged me about it...) When I stayed away from prayer meeting, they reminded me about prayer. And when my family members passed away, they turned up in full force to see me through bereavement. I know they only have two hands and one head each. They can’t do everything for me. But I guess I understand that, and I’m grateful for what they can do for me. They got a high model to live up to: Jesus is the One and Only Perfect Shepherd. When my pastors disappoint me, I pray that God will remind them of Jesus, the Great Shepherd. That’s all. I won’t write nasty things about them on some blog, and I won’t be talking to any newspaper reporter about them...I will just pray for them...

Perfect-imperfect also applies to the BOD. Hey, these guys aren’t anywhere near perfect. Sometimes, I don’t understand them...I may not always agree with their decisions...but I know some of them, and I can tell you, NO WAY are they liars or vindictive! I pray for them because I sympathise with them. Before one problem is solved, Bang! another problem comes their way. Hey, they have work and family commitments too. You think it’s easy for them to just sit and take all the things thrown at them and not reply in anger? Then walk in their shoes for one day...you will change your mind real quick, friend.

Now...perfect-imperfect members. The silent majority have not spoken for a long time...that’s because we got this silly resolution that says no blogging about church. But I can’t take it anymore. Somebody has to say something to put the picture straight! Hey, there are many of us that want the church to move on and just stop fighting! So very sorry to church resolution...but this imperfect member got to say something on the blog, ok?
Next time, I will write something else. Today, I just want to say why I am still in Calvary Church. I want the leaders to know that I will walk with them. I will not desert them (even when I don’t understand them). I will not badmouth them to anyone. Most of all, I want God to look down from heaven to see that even a small-time, unimportant, imperfect, very ordinary member like me, can show the same faithfulness to my hurting church that Jesus showed to me. This is my service to Him!

Our Beloved Sister Petrina Guneratnam

2010-04-02T05:19:00.001-07:00

She is the lady behind the man. Sweet, gentle, caring and loving. Affectionately known as Sister, we tried envisioning her scolding and screaming on top of her lungs, but that just don’t seem to fit. She is badly affected by all the accusations from the cyber zone. Hear it in her voice, read it in between her lines, you know she is affected.

But there is a group of us who is of the opinion that she is also one approved and anointed by the Lord to lead the ladies of the church. We have spoken to a few ladies who attend Tuesday Ladies Worship Services regularly and they have very good things to say about her. You can be sure some of these ladies do not know how to go online and cannot differentiate a UBS from a UPS!

When she was first accused of a CBT, she does not even know what CBT means! As far as we know, she would probably have drafted a sermon that looks like this..

Cross
Bears all my
Trangressions

Or

Confess your sins to Him
Bow before Him
Turn your eyes upon Him

That is her heart - a heart for Jesus. She preaches Jesus. She prays in the name of Jesus. She lives a Jesus-led life and is blessed with a family who loves her and cherishes her.

She has a group of ladies who are interceding for her, and a group of intercessors who are regularly praying for her to be strong. We could not ask for anyone else to be our Senior Pastors other than Sister Petrina at times like these. God sees it fit to use her and Rev Prince Guneratnam to lead Calvary Church into greater realms for Jesus.

A lady went up to her after Friday prayer meeting and asked for prayer. Her husband was going through some tough times in his business. Sister prayed for her. The lady felt blessed. But what surprised her was a phone call from Sister Petrina the next day to see if there is any development to his business situation!! And did we mention that it happened when the attacks from people who oppose her got worst? How did she get that strength to follow her on the sheep of Calvary Church? Definitely Jesus! Her source of strength and joy.

A lawyer has been absent from the church because she was often traveling due to her business commitments. She had no idea what was happening to Calvary Church and had no idea Sister noticed her absence from the church! She called her and that was just a perfect timing because the lawyer was fighting a case for a client whose integrity was questionable! Only the wisdom of Jesus would have given Sister to speak the right word at the right time. Wisdom comes from the Lord and it does not come unless one has a relationship with the Lord!

At one Sunday services back in the late 1990s, two young girls went to church with heavy hearts. They have walked to church from their homes which were located at about an hour’s walk away. Public transportation to Calvary church at that time was scarce and infrequent. After the sermon, the two girls responded to the altar call. Sister walked up to one of the girl and prayed. As she was praying for one of them, one of the girl received the baptism of the Holy Spirit that very day!! Moments after that, Sister Petrina walked up the stage, took the microphone and gave a word from the Lord. It pricked the heart of the second girl! God spoke an accurate message – a message the girl was dying to hear from the Lord!

How can one be such a beautiful blessing unless one is of the Lord? Does she still have that gifting today? Another loud YESSSSSSS!!

We know leading the church out of the miry clay into the promised land is a tough job. But none is tougher and fitter to lead Calvary Church other than Rev Prince and Petrina Guneratnam for now, until God says otherwise. For now, they are both in our prayers and our hearts.

A Letter From A Calvarite

2010-03-31T07:55:00.000-07:00

I am just a simple Christian. I love the Lord and want to do His will and be like Him. However, I have been following some blogs on the Internet for some time (almost 2 years to be exact), and I had no idea that Christians do warfare with each other like this! Aren't we supposed to fight the devil instead of one another?? Maybe I am naive, but wow! we are worse than the American presidential campaigns! Anything we can say and dig out, whether it is true or not, is just put out there in your face! To be honest, I don’t know if Pastor Prince Guneratnam is right, or this teh tarik group is right, but one thing I know, hitting below the belt is WRONG!

I used to think that Christians had this great promise from God, that our minds could be renewed, our lives transformed, so that we would be just like our Lord Jesus Christ. I thought Romans 12: 1-2 was like God’s treasure given to us so that we could be salt and light to this world. I didn’t realise that this “transformation” of standing for “truth, transparency and good governance” could also mean dragging someone’s reputation through the mud, calling deacons liars, and pastors worse names even than liars ... I didn’t know being salt and light to the world meant going to the newspapers (who just want a sensational story to increase their sales) with a nice banner that would shame Jesus’ church and His reputation, either. Worse still, I didn’t even consider, at one time that suing deacons, pastors, and the church of Jesus Christ was standing up for truth and transparency. Wow! So this is christianity today!

My dear brothers and sisters through Jesus’ precious blood, I know that history and the bible teach us different stories about how to overcome conflict and disagreement. Jesus may have whipped the moneylenders from the temple area, but you know, he showed deep respect for the priestly and temple office. He told the ordinary people that even the Pharisees taught the right thing to do. He said, “Do what they tell you; just don’t do what they do.” If we really think that the pastors and deacons of any church are not being fair or pastoral enough, Jesus comforts us with good advice, “Hey, guys, do the good things they teach you...just don’t do what they do.” We can also add—“and don’t you rebel against them by going to the newspapers...!”

When Paul came before the Sanhedrin for preaching Jesus and hanging out with Gentiles, the high priest Ananias told those around Paul to smack his face! And Paul got really mad, so he said: “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall!” (Acts 23: 3) But when Paul realized this was the high priest, you know what he said?? Read verse 5: “Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people’.”

You know, the bible is still true even today. We cannot fight spiritual battles using worldly weapons. If the pastors and deacons are so bad as some people say, then do what Jesus did with his enemies: leave them to God. God alone will vindicate His cause of transparency and truth ... using the weapon of the cross. We cannot win souls by using the latest sophisticated method or gadget. We cannot grow a church by using marketing strategies and branding a product, we cannot solve conflicts and quarrels by shouting matches, propaganda, demonstrations, signing memorandums etc etc. This is not the way of the cross.

I’m not even sure about all the quarrelling that has been going on in Calvary Church. But your name should tell you how you should behave. You are called by the name of Jesus’ dying place...Calvary is the place of the cross. All who come in must “take up his cross, deny himself, and follow me”. I’m not even sure who is right or wrong, whether the pastors and deacons are such terrible people as some say. (Wow, they sound worse than the crooks in Pudu Jail!—Oh, no more Pudu Jail now!—Are you very, very, very sure they are like this?) But I cannot agree with the way that some sheep have chosen to express their unhappiness. Brothers and sisters, this is not the way. “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death” (Proverbs 14: 12).

You want to demonstrate? Then demonstrate love. Never mind your enemy’s response. You demonstrate the life of the cross. God will win your battle for you if your cause is right and just. But make very sure of this: do not ask God to stand on your side, because you are just a little human being. Make sure you are found on God’s side... The cross is always the winning side.

Our Beloved Pastor Prince Guneratnam

2010-03-31T00:07:00.000-07:00

He is born of the seed of Adam, full of sins and full of flaws. He is a human being with feelings and emotions just like us. He eats, sleeps, takes a good shower when the humidity gets the better of us, and he watches American Idol on TV too! He has angered some people and pleased some people, made some people cringe and cry, while others smile and laugh.

That is also the kind of person for whom Jesus dies on the cross for. Does Jesus love him? Has God forgiven his sins and his flaws? Is God at work in his life?

The answer; an astounding YES!

From the testimony of a widow, Rev Prince Guneratnam dropped all his formal appointments, got his wife and his daughter together to his office, and the three of them prayed for the widow and offered words of encouragement to the widow. The widow was touched because he is such a busy man, yet he made time to attend to her immediate needs. Otherwise, she would not know how she could have cope with life without her husband.

From the testimony of a woman whose husband has been unfaithful, Rev Prince Guneratnam called the woman’s husband, scolded him, and told him to be faithful to his marriage. He prayed for the couple, sent them for counseling and followed up with calls to ensure that their marriage is still strong today.

From the testimony of a man who is down and out, without a job, and without any big credentials to his name, he walked in to Calvary Church one day, and Rev Prince Guneratnam was preaching on that day. He expounded from the Word of God so accurately and God spoke loud and clear, encouraged this man to continue to trust God for provision. Towards the end of the message, Rev Prince Guneratnam was persistent to wait for “that man whom God wants to touch” to walk down towards the altar. The man finally gave in. Tears filled his eyes, God’s love has touched his heart. He recognize the voice of God calling him. He learned to trust God. The next day, he was offered a job with a pay beyond his expectations.

From the testimony of one who has left Calvary Church and just came back recently… “I came back to hear his messages and how he could still preach from the pulpilt. Doesn’t this man have a conscience? But I was surprised that his message is still as solid as ever. I cannot deny, God did speak to me and to my situation. I am surprised God can still use him.”

From the testimony of one who lives in Bangsar…. “I saw Senior Pastor taking his evening walk in Bangsar. He saw me, smile at me, and came up to me to talk to me! I was surprised because I thought he was an arrogant man… untouchable. It was nice to talk to him definitely. I was encouraged!”

To cut the story short, he has attended weddings, funerals, visited some homes and has NEVER turn down any request for him to pray for his church members.

This post is not intended to praise and exalt a man, but to show you the other side of the coin, since he has a badly damaged reputation online.

To many Calvarites we spoke to, he is still their dearly beloved pastor. Of course they said there are certain things which he could have done better and improve on, but they know he is just a human like all of us. Does he deserve our forgiveness and prayer? Absolutely.
Does he deserve to be called a snake, or a dog? Not at all. Jesus would definitely not call him that because God has made him a man, and the power of the Resurrection of the Cross has all it takes to forgive him and to love him, and to fill him and empower him.

Does he have any areas that he needs to improve on as a pastor of Calvary Church? Absolutely. This guy is not perfect!

Do we have the moral right to judge him? We do, only if we are perfect.

A truth which we found out recently:-
We visited Calvary Church last weekend and we saw how tired he looked. His tired demeanour showed much discouragement and much struggle he is going through. In times like these, we could understand why.

And it is in times like these, when a pastor looks so defeated, that we all as Christians, are duty-bound to pray even harder for the church of God to move forward victoriously in this land.

We invite anyone with any good things to say about Rev Prince Guneratnam to share them, so that the world would get to understand and read the other side of the coin too.

More to come.

The Truth Behind the Membership Roll

2010-03-30T04:25:00.000-07:00

In Acts 3, we read of the account of Peter and John healing the crippled beggar at Beautiful Gate and on that day, the membership of the new Christian believers grew to about 5000 men, excluding women and children. Then we read of the arrest of Peter and John for their act and how the Sanhedrin endeavoured to silent the new movement.

We can clearly see the schemes or designs of Satan, working through the Sanhedrin to frustrate and thwart the expansion of the church and to drain the spiritual vitality of the disciples.

From Acts 4, we saw Satan employing a few strategies against the church, Peter and John.

Get rid of the key leaders and block the church’s forward motion. Satan did it here through the arrest of Pete and John. We need to pray for those in places of spiritual authority.
Tempt by blaming God. Wonder what run through the minds of Peter and John that night when they were arrested? “Is this how God rewards me for being faithful?”, “what is going to happen to us? To the new 5000 converts?”. Most of us would be able to relate to this almost on a daily basis.
Tempt with worry and discouragement. Most of them in Calvary Church would definitely be able to relate to this. Disheartened, discouraged and often times, disturbed.
Tempt with feelings of inferiority.
Intimidate and threaten.

Satan is predictable. God is not! The strategies Satan employs against the church in Acts stays exactly the same today. His 3 strategies are:-

defeat the church (or the individual) by causing it to doubt, fear, despair, blame others, blame God, or sin. It is an attack against the spirit of the church or individual.
defeat by the church by promoting division. Often this is done through the functioning of selfishness. Many times it is doctrinal.
defeat the church or individual through persecution or seduction. Actually persecution and seduction are two sides of the same coin. A torturer is often more successful with a captive when he lures him with advantages rather than persecution. In Acts, we do not see Satan using seduction to any degree. That comes later in church history.

Can you identify the above strategies used by Satan against Calvary Church? We cannot accuse our Christian brothers and sisters who support the TTG cause for having malicious and evil intention. Their hurts and disappointments are genuine, (although misplaced and not well-informed), but we need to pray and intercede for them as well. It is equally difficult for them to oppose their church in such fashion.

However, after making a few phone calls and spoke to a few persons, we would like to draw your attention to some facts we have found out recently.

There were less than 200 members of Calvary Church who had been removed from the “Voting Members” and “Associate Members” list.
The 200 names had been DOWNGRADED and MOVED to a list called “Inactive Members”.
There are also some who have passed away, and there are also some who have transferred membership to other churches.

Without publishing this fact, some of our brothers and sisters of a differing view may think otherwise. You may choose to call Calvary Church or email them to verify. Their contact details is at their church website at http://www.calvary.org.my

So, for those who saw photos of their friends smiling behind the “We love Calvary Church” banner in the newspaper last week, good news is, their names are still on the membership roll of their church.

More to come...

Notice From Administrator

2009-12-15T17:57:00.000-08:00

Dear Readers: Some of us will be going on vacations (local and abroad), however this blog will be managed by a sister who has volunteered to help out. I will be logging in from Bali from time to time. Thanks & God Bless.

A letter from a concerned member: How does this whole episode make me feel

2009-12-13T20:46:00.000-08:00

To be honest and direct - I feel sick to my stomach. I try to read the TTG's website and the comments every other day. After reading the comments especially - these people claiming to be Christ-Like and Christians (those who are bound to base their actions on the Bible) is sickening. You will get a feeling in your stomach that is similar to the feeling you get before throwng up. All sort of questions will start popping up in your mind - is these people really Christians? At the end of it, a feeling of despair and anger will settle in, every couple of days I will need to kneel down and pray - God please remove all the bitterness and negativity from me.

As I think about the church's leader - the pastors, BOD, and etc, they have not really been forthcoming with information either. So can I blame them for not revealing information as and when I want them? So can I go on a accusation spree saying all sort of words against the church pastors whom I have looked upon for many many years? Never I will never do that.

As I ponder more about the situation, a thought came into my mind, what is a Pastor to be like? A pastor means a shepherd. They are suppose to tend to the sheeps and it's needs, the sheeps are naive. The pastor's role is to ensure that the sheep's attention is always re-aligned to Jesus - not the shepherd themselves. Does this means that the pastors are not accountable? You see, in every believers life, when he or she accept Jesus, they look upon the pastors the same way they look upon Jesus but slowly and surely they pastor is duty bound to direct the attention/focus to Lord Jesus, this is call discipleship. If the pastors are doing this excellently, should they answer and make a stand for each and every accusations thrown at them? Then what would it become of the church? A political party? Where people can swicth sides and there's team a, team b and maybe a team c working in the backgound?

The whole church will go into a downwards spiral, losing all objective and purpose - there will be visible infighting, voilence and sabotages. The end will be not far for that church.

I believe this is what my pastors and the BOD deacons are doing and I thank God for such wisdom. I just hope and pray that people will not get into the teaching of the TTG and will re-focus on God and continue running the race to the finish line.

The Underworld Is Trembling

2009-12-13T20:23:00.000-08:00

The devil is in frenzy. He is working overtime using all of the fiery darts in his arsenal to destroy every soul possible before his time is finished. Suicide is one of Satan’s primary tools that he uses on someone that he has beguiled to the point of despair. As America and the world continues to slip toward One World Socialism, watch for anarchy and violence to grow equally. The Holy Bible promises, “Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken” (Luke 21:26). Satan and his minions are passionately preparing to turn our world into a wilderness.

Revelation chapter six cannot be completed until after the Rapture, but we can already see the prelude. “And when he (the Lamb of God) had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword” (Revelation 6:3-4). We forget that every act and every evil manifestation of Lucifer must be allowed by prophecy of Scripture or the Sovereign hand of God. Satan is always on a leash and cannot operate outside God’s allowed scheme. This is one of the believer’s primary assurances.
The entire population of this world is facing dangerous times. But the majority of them have absolutely no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes. The underworld always does everything in their power to hide their actions. Satan and his demons are invisible unless -- in some rare moment -- there is a physical manifestation. I believe these visible acts will become more frequent as the end unfolds.

The political situation in America and almost every nation has come under the sway of evil people that do Satan’s will. Almost everything they are promoting fits the plans of the underworld. What could be darker in all the earth than the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle in our public schools? Our tax dollars are being used to destroy the pure Biblical morals of the next generation. How could such a thing happen in America? And that’s just the tip of the Iceberg.

The Obama Administration has appointed a man, called his “Safe School Czar.” His name is Kevin Jennings and his accomplishment that merits this appointment is an organization called GLSEN. That’s short for Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network. His organization has promoted sick sexual education to students as young as 14 years of age and maybe even younger. I cannot describe what this organization has promoted because it is so gross. If I did, you would quit reading this PNA. Believe me the truth is enough to make you frightened. As educated as I consider myself on evil, this discovery made me stop and weep sitting right here at my desk.
We have got to learn that this battle is not a “flesh and blood” war. It is a diabolical invasion and Satan is determined to win. We know he will not win, but that does not change the seriousness of our fight. The Holy Spirit said, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Ephesians 6:12). We will either learn to fight in the Spirit or we will lose. It’s that simple! “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints” (Ephesians 6:17-18). (Please study this entire passage.)

Satan knows all about Revelation chapter twelve and the war that is soon to occur in the second heavens. Satan is presently the “prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2), and “the god of this world” (II Corinthians 2:2). This position of great advantage will end when Michael and his host of holy angels engage this liar and thief. Right now, Satan can appeal to God and can bring his lies of accusation against every saint of God. Every battle we win now, we win because we pray and struggle to defeat our old flesh and depend only on God and His resources in the Word of God.

The moment Lucifer is cast out of the heavens; he can never leave the confines of the earth. After his limited earthly powers and struggles during the seven years of the Great Tribulation, he will be cast into the Bottomless Pit. After spending a thousand years in the Abyss, he will then be cast into the Lake of Fire. “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night” (Revelation 12:7-10).
I hope you now understand why the underworld is trembling. When Jesus Christ appeared the first time, the fallen angels of Satan were terrified about their future. If they trembled then, you can understand the level of frenzy they are now experiencing. Read the description of these demons begging Jesus for mercy, “When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep (abyss)” (Luke 8:28-31).
Our future is both bright and challenging. We should rejoice because of what we see on the world scene. It is clear that the dark underworld is fighting for their final control. The darkest hour is always just before the dawn of a new day. We will witness the fury of evil, and every truth in Scripture will be fulfilled. The wicked will have their last opportunities to manifest the darkness in their heart.

Every person reading this article must prepare if they expect to survive. Every door in your life that you open to sin or Satan will become an invitation for demons to destroy you. Remember, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (I Peter 5:8). The underworld is staffed by a multitude of spirits or fallen angels. There is more than one for every soul. Your protection is the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. We are warned to “Neither give place to the devil” (Ephesians 4:27).
Joseph R. Chambers, DD, DSL jrc@pawcreek.org

More on Calvary....

2009-12-11T00:09:00.000-08:00

Here's a link to the letter sent by the Board of Deacon to TheStars:-

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file=/2009/12/11/central/5243713&sec=central

Legal Action Against Calvary Church

2009-12-07T16:53:00.000-08:00

The following has been extracted from http://calvarytoday.blogspot.com/:-

THERE WAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT BY SP & BOD AT THE SUNDAY SERVICE THAT THE TTG HAS INITIATED A LEGAL ACTION AGAINST SP & DEACONS. THEY ALSO ANNOUNCED THAT THE CHURCH HAS ENGAGED A WELL KNOWN LAWYER TO DEFEND THEM.WE ARE NOW IN THE MIDST OF WRITING A REPORT CONCERNING THE LEGAL ACTION TAKEN BUT WE HAVE YET TO VERIFY AND CONFIRM SOME FACTS FROM VARIOUS PARTIES BEFORE WE CAN POST OUR COMMENTS.

BE ASSURED THAT THE LEGAL ACTION IS NOT AGAINST CALVARY CHURCH AND NO CLAIMS ARE BEING MADE FROM THE CHURCH. IT IS SOLELY TO SEEK JUSTICE FROM PG & THE DEACONS PERSONALLY.

Note from Admin: Do not comment on this legal action, so far the TTG core supporters comments has been wordy and "sweet" - hence we have decided not to post such comments. The silent majority has been SILENT except for a few - but your anger and frustration (either side) seems to have overtaken the point that you are trying to make. Let's comments wisely and Christ-Like.

Take 4: Joseph Gerard

2009-12-07T15:58:00.000-08:00

This is Joseph Gerard, he is in the TTG council as well. We will identify him as the TTG President. He was baptised in water in 2006 (with his wife and children). We are currently trying to look up more details about him. His previous church and other details.

Take 3: Lim Siew Chyuan

2009-12-06T16:53:00.000-08:00

This is Lim Siew Chyuan,
This person also forms the core TTG (TTG Council). We will identify him as TTG Secretary General.
He is very stern and you will see him walking up and down in every AGM's or EGM's.

More on Calvary -1

2009-12-06T16:19:00.001-08:00

http://marketing-interactive.com/news/16689

For Every Man

2009-12-03T17:44:00.000-08:00

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.” Hebrews 2:9. No one is excluded from receiving the free gift of salvation. God died on that cross so every human being on this planet could obtain salvation and continue on to a new and awesome Heavenly home. Jesus suffered and died for all humanity.

What stops man from wanting such a home? Pride. That’s it, it’s prideful to reject God’s free gift of salvation. Only by believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of His only begotten Son can we obtain that free gift. Many might disagree with me and say it’s a hardened heart, or ignorance, even self-reliance that keeps man from believing the truth. Pride is what got in Lucifer’s way and it’s been the one thing that has been so prevalent in so many lost souls since the beginning of time. “The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.” Psalm 10:4. Using God’s name as profanity doesn’t count as keeping God in all our thoughts.

To humble one’s self before God requires an abandonment of pride and there are so many who won’t allow that to ever occur in their meager and short existence. So many people actually believe that this world holds the answer to everything–every question, every thought, every experience and there is nothing at the end of one’s life but a cold dark grave. When some folks hear the question, “Are you a believer?” or “Do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ?” their pride is activated and they reject such nonsensical questioning with a prideful “I don’t believe in God” or I don’t need your God”. This one really saddens me, “I don’t fear your God”. Pride is the culprit and many a lost soul will find this out the hard way. “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18.

We read in the book of Hebrews that Jesus tasted death for every man. That means everybody that ever lived or ever will live has been covered by the blood of Christ. In the past, before Jesus’ First Advent, if folks believed in the coming Messiah and were faithful to God, when they died their souls were sent to Abraham’s bosom. After Jesus died all who profess their faith in Him go directly to Heaven. But the one thing they all have in common is that they all, at some point, dropped that prideful attitude and humbled themselves before God. Alas, Jesus tells us many will never lose that prideful attitude. “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Matthew 7:14. They not only can’t find it but pride keeps them from seeking the truth.

Many will hold to the two big lies of Satan, “Yea, hath God said”, and “Ye shall not surely die” Genesis 3:1, 4. And they will remain in that state of condemnation. They will never give up the pride that holds them captive like zoo animals in cages. Jesus died for the express purpose of saving all the lost from an eternity in Hell. All are given the same opportunity to believe and repent. “Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain,” Psalm 73:6a.

Have you ever wondered how God could possibly love a person whose whole life is or has been devoted to sin? He can, and He does. A person who has never acknowledged God’s grace or His love but who has taken advantage of every good gift which can only come from God is still loved by God. God knows how the evil one works and He knows the influence Satan has on you and me. That’s why He made the following promise “For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." Hebrews 13:5b. God does not love you and me more than He loves the lost. The lost have access to that same promise and can, with a little faith and a changed attitude toward submission, obtain that same promise immediately.

God loved us from before the creation of the earth, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world” Ephesians 1:4. Until we breathe our last breath God will remain true to His word. He will love us and He will continue steadfast in His attempt to convince every unbelieving person on earth of the truth of who He is. And His free gift of salvation is continually offered to everyone.

When the end comes, as we know it will very soon now, all who believe death is the end of all things will be greatly surprised; death is in no way the end. Death is just an excursion into a whole new realm. It’s the end of life on earth yes, but not the end of our existence. It is the end of all earthly problems, worries, materialism, bank accounts, favorite cars, love affairs, and everything else worldly. All earthly treasures which we built up over a lifetime are instantaneously someone else’s at death. As followers of Jesus Christ we know our earthly gains won’t come close to our heavenly rewards. But for the lost, they not only lose everything they had acquired while alive, but they lose their souls to an eternity in Hell. A double whammy you might say. But the latter is so much worse than the first.

Did you know that at the exact moment that death grabs the unbeliever he/she suddenly believes in Jesus? It’s no joke; they are believers at the nanosecond they die. They instantly become keenly aware that Jesus the Christ is God Almighty even though they wouldn’t believe it while they were alive. But it’s too late for the unbeliever. They had their chance to accept the free gift of salvation while they were alive. But all their thoughts went to accumulating a house and garage full of material wealth, never a thought to their eternal destination.

Imagine the hopeless feeling of those who remain in rebellion to God ‘til death as their eyes close for the last time. Everything they did and everything they possessed will come into view and they will scream with all their spirit “Lord, Lord”. “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord... ‘And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22a, 23. As we can plainly see their screams will be to no avail.

As Solomon aptly penned after a lifetime of acquiring a world of wealth, and trying just about every perversion known to man, he came to the conclusion “Vanity, all is vanity”. Those who die without Christ will come to the same conclusion as Solomon. They’ll utter the following sorrowful words “I chose poorly” because they will quickly realize they can never return from their now eternal hellish home. Even the nicest, kindest person we know is destined for Hell if they haven’t believed in the “One” God sent, Jesus the Christ.

Facing an eternity in Hell is a horrible thought. It’s nothing to make light of. I can’t imagine any of my brethren wishing anyone that type of eternal existence. If they do they don’t understand the full concept of Hell. All of the brethren have a great opportunity to share Jesus with the lost, to explain the difference between an eternity in Heaven and an eternity in Hell. Death isn’t on the minds of most folks; most give no thought whatsoever to where they will remain for eternity. The Great Commission given to all the saints is that we deliver the truth of the Gospel of Christ to the lost. Basically, as we go about informing them of their choices, we enlighten them as to the specific differences between Heaven and Hell. This may motivate them to have a change of mind, and hopefully they will make the smart decision.

As believers we see the end approaching more and more rapidly with every passing day. But the lost don’t see anything different from day to day except maybe their retirement portfolios declining. Is there a believer who hasn’t thought about Hell? Probably not. No matter how much we think about it we never see it as a huge kegger in the park, but that’s how so many of the lost souls of this world see Hell. “Well, I’ll be with friends” goes the old joke. “No, you won’t” should be our response and we should never laugh at that sorry quip. We should be as serious as the grave when we proclaim the truth about Hell. It’s terrible, painful, sorrowful, extremely hot, and completely void of the existence of God. No one will want to stay there after they realize where they are. But they will have no choice, once there Hell will be their domain for eternity.

Atheists and the rest of the unbelievers don’t understand that they are never out of the presence of God while they are alive on this earth. God is everywhere and He sees everything we do. Every believer rejoices in the fact that God is always with us, but unbelievers want nothing to do with God. At their death they will get their wish, but not while they are alive. Whether they like it or not God is ever present in all our lives. But God will not be in Hell; that’s what makes it Hell, it is void of God. All God’s grace, and His mercy, and of course His awesome love is present with us. In Hell there will be none of His attributes present. That, my friends, is the indisputable truth.

Salvation by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ is all we need to avoid that horrible place called Hell or Hades. And it’s available to every atheist, agnostic, secular humanist, and all the other nonbelievers out there. It’s even available to all those who are wrapped up in Christian cults such as the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and all the rest of the false religions floating around these days.

Islam, the fastest growing religion today, has 1.5 billion followers, and yet they are all perishing if they continue in their unbelief. Jesus wants to be their Savior the same as He wants to be yours and mine. All can come to Jesus for salvation while they are still alive, because He died for everybody. But God will not accept any excuses and there will no doubt be many. Let me put it another way, the fact that you were sold a bill of goods by some false teacher or a lying prophet is no excuse for rejecting the truth of the Gospel. The lie you were fed will most certainly affect your final eternal destination. And once you’re there, you’re there for good. The foolish people who have been captivated and sucked into these false religions and cults have had every opportunity to seek and find the truth. They can reject the falsehoods that they’ve been taught and embrace the truth of the scriptures. But they better do it soon.

Have you been deceived? Will you believe the truth? Only you can answer those questions. Salvation is personal and it’s for everyone, but it only comes from the one true God. Lord Jesus the Christ.

God bless you all,

Ron Graham

All scripture is from the KJV

Take 2: Wong Hong Meng

2009-11-29T16:13:00.000-08:00

This is Wong Hong Meng, he goes by the abreviation of HM.

This person also forms the core TTG or shall we say, the TTG Council.We will identify him as TTG Chairman.

He is very charismatic and flows easily with the young people.

He also gets invited to many bible schools in Malaysia to speak about Finance Management. A frequent speaker at BCM.

Note from NowStand admin: Says alot on the BCM scrutinization process.

The impact of conflict and how to fight back

2009-11-24T17:17:00.000-08:00

by: Thomas Hammond and Steve Wilkes 2/4/2009

Conflict can start at any moment in any church. A disagreement over the color of carpet, program schedule, or a committee’s role can result in a dispute that reaches biblical proportions.

A 2004 Christianity Today survey of pastors revealed the top six sources of conflict as:

Control Issues…………....85 percent
Vision/Direction………....64 percent
Leadership Changes......43 percent
Pastor’s Style…………....39 percent
Financial………………....33 percent
Theological/Doctrine…..23 percent

Sadly, conflict is a common occurrence in congregations of every denomination across America. It happens to traditional, blended and contemporary churches for a variety of reasons, with the capacity to reach extreme levels of intensity.

In a recent national survey of more than 14,000 congregations, 75 percent reported some level of conflict in the past five years. While the conflict experienced in each of these churches might have varied greatly, it was still significant enough for church leaders to remember it, even after five years.

Leadership losses

A minister friend of mine (Steve) was pastor of a thriving church in Arkansas. The church used "ministry-evangelism" to help people and to win them to Christ. The church doubled. They started a daughter church nearby. Then, lay people rose up against the pastor, and he resigned. For a while, he helped the new church, but today he is not in full-time ministry. This is a great brother who was wounded by conflict—after church growth—and today he is working in the secular world.

I'm afraid his story is common. A church grows, conflict occurs, and preachers and lay people are hurt deeply. I can sometimes spot the "walking wounded" when they visit our seminary after graduating several years earlier. They, too, are victims. Some members leave their churches disillusioned, while others lose trust in church leadership and become less faithful in their attendance and service. These casualties may find it difficult to become personally involved in another church for fear of another disaster.

Ministers are leaving the ministry and their pulpits in record numbers. An estimated 1,500 pastors (all denominations) leave their positions each month.
Churches struggle within their fellowship to regain a sense of stability and harmony. Leadership must cope with a damaged reputation, possibly in the church, but certainly in the community. There is also the unavoidable reality that they are not fulfilling their purpose for existing.

How does conflict affect evangelism?

Several years ago, I (Thomas) began serving as interim pastor with a church that recently had forced their pastor to resign. During the first meeting with church leaders, I asked to see their numbers for the past several years. Needless to say, they were not good. Money...down, attendance...down, baptisms...you guessed it, down as well. One significant fact about this church is that they were located in the second-fastest-growing county in America. In the middle of a population explosion, they were in a terrible freefall.

As I looked closer at the numbers, I noticed the chart did not go straight down. In fact, there were several high peaks over the years. After questioning one of the lay leaders about the reasons for the decline after the growth, he pointed to each and embarrassingly admitted that the growth stopped because of "fights." He was even able to recall what the different "fights" were about. While these "fights" left emotional scars across the congregation, they also served as a deterrent.

To say it plainly, conflict stops evangelism. Any momentum a church might be experiencing through outreach almost always comes to a screeching halt at the slightest hint of a brouhaha. In Acts 6:1, we find the early church still exploding with growth. However, we know that the church stopped evangelizing when conflict arose because of one word in verse seven—"then." Verse seven says, "Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem."

So between verse one, "the number of disciples was multiplying," and verse seven, "the number of the disciples multiplied greatly," a conflict "arose."

Why do conflicts stop evangelism?

There are many reasons why the disease of conflict prevents a church from growing. C. Peter Wagner identified a classic growth problem. He called it the "Pioneer vs. Homesteader Conflict." The pioneers are the people in the church who have been there for many years. The homesteaders are the newcomers who have joined the church within the last few years. When the homesteaders begin to grow because the church is growing, the pioneers often feel threatened. They know that soon they will be outnumbered and lose control. Thus, some of the pioneers cause trouble in the church, causing the growth to slow down or stop.

A conflict also diverts the focus of church members from the fields of harvest to discovering who is on whose side. The energy that is needed for ministry, missions, and witnessing is siphoned from the body and spent on forming battle lines. Communication breaks down and critical decisions are made in secret, causing mistrust and alienation. The unity of the fellowship is broken into factions of "us" and "them" and prevents anyone from inviting a lost person to a ministry event or Bible study. Morale plummets with staff members and lay leaders as evangelistic events are canceled or poorly attended. The hope of impacting the community with the gospel in the future fades as word of the fight begins to seep into the community. It is hard to save a drowning man if everyone holding a life preserver is arguing so loudly they cannot hear his cry.

Conflict management or resolution?

Managing conflict is only a part of a leader's responsibility. This job is not complete until there is resolution! This is exactly what "the twelve" did in Acts 6. They did not ignore the complaint, hoping it would go away, or label the widows as troublemakers. They asked the church in Jerusalem to choose men to deal with this task. What task was that? Was it just to oversee this distribution of food as many believe? No! The task was to deal with the conflict at hand—the conflict between the Jewish and Greek widows. Talk about an explosive issue! This has to be at the top of the list of problems which could keep the church from growing and making progress in other areas.

The leaders of the church in Acts worked together to carefully develop a plan and communicate it to the entire church. After sharing it with the church, "the saying pleased the whole multitude."

The Acts church chose seven leaders, and I believe they were the first deacons. They were good men, full of the Holy Spirit, and men with a good reputation. Much conflict in churches occurs because pastors and congregations fail to observe these biblical mandates. Someone who is not obviously full of the Spirit should never be selected to be a deacon. And the first task of a deacon should be to watch for and quietly handle any conflict.

A strong immune system

Having a strong immune system is essential in the fight against infection and disease. The body of Christ has an immune system as well—an essential part of controlling conflict. Its presence is evident in the first church in Acts. Though they experienced all types of conflict, they were continually used by God to accomplish amazing results.

A church’s immune system can be strengthened by each member enjoying a daily, healthy diet of the spiritual nutrients of the Word of God. They must spend sufficient time in prayer, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal any sin that needs to be confessed, and praying for God’s will to be accomplished in their life and church.

It is important for each member of the body to avoid all selfish attitudes and bad behavior. Focusing their attention and energy on the needs of others allows them to serve as a source of encouragement. Finally, every member needs to exercise his faith and gifts. This keeps everyone’s faith healthy and strong and helps insure that conflict does not destroy a church.

Adapted from an article originally published in the Spring 2008 issue of the Journal of Evangelism&Missions, published by the Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. Reprinted with permission from editor Steve Wilkes.

Take 1: Datuk Lim Kim Chuan

2009-11-22T16:51:00.000-08:00

This is Datuk Lim Kim Chuan, or more famously known as KC Lim. This person forms the core TTG or shall we say, the TTG Council.

We will identify him as TTG CEO.

The StarMetro Article - Crisis Rocks Calvary Church

2009-11-19T17:37:00.000-08:00

The whole of klang valley has read the StarMetro article on Calvary Church in PJ, however the 1st time I read it, my heart almost stopped. Why are people - learnt men - doing this to the body of Christ - where is love and where is humility?

As I expanded my search in the Internet I came across a blog called calvarytoday.blogspot.com. It seems that the TTG (not sure what is the abbreviation stands for) is on a smear campaign agaist their own church and their leaders, it's like throwing cow dung at your parents and the house that you grew up in.

Well as the saying goes, even if you bath and clean a pig, once you open the door it would run out searching for mud. This is what some christians are: Swine mentality. We have cow disease, swine flu, swine worm and swine diet and swine banning. But now we see Swine Mentality among Christians. Not to degrade swine the animal, the meat taste wonderful. We are humans, and even better we are cleanse by the blood of Jesus. How are we suppose to act like? As pigs? or are suppose to show gratitude and humilty? To be honest I am not sure what is the whole issue is about in Calvary Church - a Church known for its mega Christmas presentations.
One thing I know is those people who called themselves the TTG are against the will and ways of God.

Starting from this week, we will expose the people behind the TTG group by posting their picture in this blog - which is also one of our objectives.
From email that I have received, the TTG council consist of the following:-
1. Wong Hong Meng
2. Datuk KC Lim
3. Liza Low
4. Dr. Lum
5. Siew Chyuan
6. a couple of others

Also there's a high-end government consultant involves as well as an advisor named Vijayan.

Why am I going this? Simple Reason: Rebellions needs to be exposed.

How much should your pastor be paid?

2009-11-18T20:36:00.000-08:00

NECF Malaysia has posted an interesting article:-

http://www.necf.org.my/newsmaster.cfm?&menuid=2&parentid=21&action=view&retrieveid=1125

Dear Readers - if you have any comments or suggestion, do email us at nowstand@gmail.com.

*We do not accept anonymous comments, if you wish to be anonymous, indicate your preferance in your comments or email.

Thanks

Calling All Christians in Malaysia

2009-11-17T20:42:00.000-08:00

This blog was created to address the issues of rising rebellions in many churches in Malaysia. Christians are mere mortal albeit saved and sanctified.

Most pastors/ deacons and leader are clueless on how to handle this rebellions in their local churches.
The trend was this kind of rebellion was normally seen in mega churches and the end is simple - what mega church!!??

This blog will be based upon the following scripture:-

Ephesians 6:10-20 (NKJV):-
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

These people who rebel are totally ignorant of the consequences of their actions. They choose to be ignorant of the many lives that have been hurt, the missed chance of touching another person with the truth of Jesus and creating stumbling blocks all along the christians walk for many new and "old" christians. It is very sad.

Young christian as precious as they are are also taking the path of rebellions, thinking that they know better.

What are we trying to achieve here:-
1. Create a voice for the silent majority.
2. Enable the pastors to exhange thoughts.
3. Provide encourgement for the leaders.
4. Expose these rebels.
5. Provide an avenue for mediation, collabration and negotiation.
6. Assess the impact of rebellion in the local church.
7. Assess the impact of the rebellion in the general public.

We welcome your comments, however we will not accept strong worded comment and anonymous comments. You may however choose to be anonymous by indicating that you do not prefer to be identified.

You may also email articles and thoughts to the following email address:-
nowstand@gmail.com

We hope and pray that this day will be the start of a great journey for all of us - the Christians in Malaysia.

God Bless.